New to Saltwater!

[NoxMyLumos]

Hey guys! So we've got a JBJ 45g Rimless a little over a month ago and man we've got a lot going on! I'm pretty experienced in freshwater tanks so this whole explosion of all these little creatures is new territory and it seems like everyday I find a new little something crawling around.
So the main reason I'm posting on here is because we got a green-tipped purple base bubble tip anemone from LFS (yes I know we got it super early and we didn't know before but now we do) and we've been observing some weird behavior. We originally placed him about mid-tank under the water flow and he moved a good half a foot down and settled into a hole in some live rock, seeming to have found a good spot but since then he's been looking poor. Some of his tentacles are dark and skinny, some are thicker and green and a few times he's done the whole pushing it's mouth out and open, but after a phone call to LFS he advised we move him up closer to light and more flow and see if he moves or gets better. He has yet to move, but has seemed a bit more lively, we direct fed and it seems to eat well but then today we have watched him shrivel and push a big brown bit out. I'm hoping this is the whole purging/water change thing I've been reading about or expelling any of the dead algae inside from transport? But we're just worried about it dying and ruining anything in the tank, we haven't had anything die yet thankfully.
pH 8
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates <5ppm
Temp is steady at 80°

We have some coral frags and an assortment of life and everything else seems to be thriving! Any hints or things we should check? We were discussing getting a Phosphorus test kit to see what it's like.
What are signs of imminent death?
I'll post some pics, the two from the side are from when we first got it and the other two are from after we moved. The one from above is from today with the brown substance. Any help would be appreciated! -Thanks! Garrett

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[lpsouth1978]

First off, let me say welcome to the insanity!!

Your nem definitely looks like it is in a bad state, the last pic especially.

I think you are fighting an uphill battle, but it is possible to help it survive. I would recommend just leaving it alone and letting it find it's own spot. Moving it manually will just stress it even more. It will move if it wants. I would also not advise that you feed it until it has fully acclimated to it's new home, this can take weeks.

If it expelling it's algae, it is usually a pretty bad sign, however sometimes after shipping and going in a new tank, it may expel some. When this happens, it should return to it;'s normal state pretty fast. If it stays deflated, with the insides showing for days at a time, it is in very bad shape.

Watch it closely. If it detaches from the rocks entirely, it is probably nearing the end. If it starts "melting" and looking like a pile of snot, it is already gone.

Please keep us updated and ask any other questions you may have.

 

[NoxMyLumos]

Ok! Thanks sounds good! And just FYI we definitely didn't move the nem itself. Just the rock is was on!
We were at the LDS today and guy advised us to use Phytogen because it was a "dirtier" food and nems like a matured, "dirtier" tank vs we've been using RedSea Reef Energy AB. Maybe that will help it as well? Plus all the corals we have.

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[NoxMyLumos]

Oops, LFS* also here are some pics of other things growing in nicely, including a before and after pictures of about a few weeks of growth! Love the crab [emoji3531] he's mowing through a lot of the bubble algae.

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[NoxMyLumos]

Update: a few hours later the nem has moved and has a lot of bubble tips again. Looks like he's filled back up with water! Hopefully this is a good sign?

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[Rover88]

Welcome to the fun!

For a tank just over a month old you've certainly done a lot with it fast. :lmao:

A phrase you will hear a lot is 'nothing good happens fast in a reef tank'. You mentioned in your original post knowing you got some things early. Best thing to do right now is just let the tank stay the course and mature. You've got a fair bit of algae of varying sorts which is likely because the tank is still trying to cycle.

For things you will want to check...

Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium are the three big 'coral' ones. Any one of them out of balance can cause the others to swing wildly, so its sort of a trio you need to check together. If you see one off/unusual, check the other two... I have an excel sheet I use to 'trend' so if anything sticks out I can start checking other things. Alkalinity is the one I usually monitor because its the only thing I'm dosing.


Phosphorous/phosphate is also important to test, at some point. I believe most people recommend phosphorous testers as they are more sensitive.

In my tank which has most soft corals the only thing I need to dose is alkalinity, as my corals consume far more then I can replenish with water changes. For you, in a small tank like a 45 gallon you can likely replenish your own with just water changes until your corals grow big or you get a lot of them.


Are you making your own RODI water and mixing salt yourself, or buying it premixed from the LFS?

 

[NoxMyLumos]

Welcome to the fun!

For a tank just over a month old you've certainly done a lot with it fast. :lmao:

A phrase you will hear a lot is 'nothing good happens fast in a reef tank'. You mentioned in your original post knowing you got some things early. Best thing to do right now is just let the tank stay the course and mature. You've got a fair bit of algae of varying sorts which is likely because the tank is still trying to cycle.

For things you will want to check...

Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium are the three big 'coral' ones. Any one of them out of balance can cause the others to swing wildly, so its sort of a trio you need to check together. If you see one off/unusual, check the other two... I have an excel sheet I use to 'trend' so if anything sticks out I can start checking other things. Alkalinity is the one I usually monitor because its the only thing I'm dosing.


Phosphorous/phosphate is also important to test, at some point. I believe most people recommend phosphorous testers as they are more sensitive.

In my tank which has most soft corals the only thing I need to dose is alkalinity, as my corals consume far more then I can replenish with water changes. For you, in a small tank like a 45 gallon you can likely replenish your own with just water changes until your corals grow big or you get a lot of them.


Are you making your own RODI water and mixing salt yourself, or buying it premixed from the LFS?

Hiya thanks! Yeah we have done a lot lol. We've mostly gotten things to combat algae and various things, emerald crab for algae, peppermint shrimp for aiptasia, snails for cleanup, etc but yeah we haven't done any water changes or any chemical additives yet. We wanted to just let it do its own thing for a while.

I'm pretty concerned after seeing the nem this morning, he's got himself wedged between the wall and a rock, should we move the rock? I'm nervous he's moving to somewhere to die, but he was looking much better before I went to bed last night! The first pic is before and the second is as soon as I woke up.

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[NoxMyLumos]

Oh and we get our water pre-mixed from LFS and have since the start.

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[Rover88]

There are some downsides to getting premixed water, mostly being you have no idea how effective their RODI system is, and how well they remove solids from it.

Speaking of.

Do you have a refractometer or device to measure salinity? How have you been topping up your water, with what kind of water, and do you know what salinity the store has been selling to you at?

I don't have an anemone and I don't know them well, but I do know its one of those 'leave it alone' critters. If its moving, it wants to be somewhere its not... And you can't pick where its gonna go. Hopefully someone more helpful can chime in there!

 

[NoxMyLumos]

There are some downsides to getting premixed water, mostly being you have no idea how effective their RODI system is, and how well they remove solids from it.

Speaking of.

Do you have a refractometer or device to measure salinity? How have you been topping up your water, with what kind of water, and do you know what salinity the store has been selling to you at?

I don't have an anemone and I don't know them well, but I do know its one of those 'leave it alone' critters. If its moving, it wants to be somewhere its not... And you can't pick where its gonna go. Hopefully someone more helpful can chime in there!

I don't know any of those things lol, we've been pretty trusting with this store it's a huge place with a lot of customers and I know someone with a 500g that was setup and maintained by this place and they can't shut up about them. We will look into testing the salinity and asking about their system for sure.

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[Rover88]

When your tank water evaporates, what do you use to 'top it up' back to the normal water line? More saltwater from them? Tapwater?

The reason I'm asking is in a saltwater tank, you can't refill with saltwater. Doing so will cause your salinity to keep creeping higher and higher and will /kill/ your fish/corals/everything in the tank eventually if you aren't careful.

As for using tapwater, doing so will introduce anything thats IN your tapwater. A RODI system is used to remove all impurities to get water that has 0 TDS (Total dissolved solids) before you add your salt mix. Once the salt mix is added the TDS is off the charts because thats literally what salt-mix is, its all solids you are dissolving.

But the reason you need to be sure to refill with RODI water is for all you know your tapwater contains trace amounts of copper, iron, metals, impurities, chlorine, chloramine etc, etc, etc.

Copper in particular (As in, from copper piping) is a big danger because copper is lethal to invertebrates and if I recall also corals.

 

[NoxMyLumos]

When your tank water evaporates, what do you use to 'top it up' back to the normal water line? More saltwater from them? Tapwater?

The reason I'm asking is in a saltwater tank, you can't refill with saltwater. Doing so will cause your salinity to keep creeping higher and higher and will /kill/ your fish/corals/everything in the tank eventually if you aren't careful.

As for using tapwater, doing so will introduce anything thats IN your tapwater. A RODI system is used to remove all impurities to get water that has 0 TDS (Total dissolved solids) before you add your salt mix. Once the salt mix is added the TDS is off the charts because thats literally what salt-mix is, its all solids you are dissolving.

But the reason you need to be sure to refill with RODI water is for all you know your tapwater contains trace amounts of copper, iron, metals, impurities, chlorine, chloramine etc, etc, etc.

Copper in particular (As in, from copper piping) is a big danger because copper is lethal to invertebrates and if I recall also corals.

Wow we hadn't thought of that! We've only had to top off maybe twice? But we have just been using the pre-mixed water we got from the LFS. So'm hoping that just those two in a month haven't harmed much! We will look into all of that today! Thanks!

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[Rover88]

No problem! There are a lot of things like that in the hobby that sneak up on a person. I've only been doing it a year so I'm still very fresh on the mistakes I made at the beginning

I don't know what your LFS mixes at. In terms of specific gravity, most people on here will recommend 1.026 as the golden number for reef tanks (Corals and fish).

Fish can tolerate very low salinity (1.009 is a treatment for some diseases, for example) but you want to try to stay as near to 1.026 as you can...

You should mention this to the store! I'm sure they will guide you in the right direction on what to get. Pure water can be purchased thats filtered with RO (Reverse-osmosis only, no deionization resin, thats the DI part) and it might not be as good as a pure RODI setup can give, but its a far sight better then tap water or more salt water.

If you've only had to top off twice, you probably are good! But its just another thing to consider, especially where your 'nem is unhappy. Your salinity might be too high!

My tank uses 3-4 gallons of water a day, and I have an automatic topup pump that fills it anytime it falls below the level I set. Its a great convenience.

 

[NoxMyLumos]

No problem! There are a lot of things like that in the hobby that sneak up on a person. I've only been doing it a year so I'm still very fresh on the mistakes I made at the beginning [emoji14]

I don't know what your LFS mixes at. In terms of specific gravity, most people on here will recommend 1.026 as the golden number for reef tanks (Corals and fish).

Fish can tolerate very low salinity (1.009 is a treatment for some diseases, for example) but you want to try to stay as near to 1.026 as you can...

You should mention this to the store! I'm sure they will guide you in the right direction on what to get. Pure water can be purchased thats filtered with RO (Reverse-osmosis only, no deionization resin, thats the DI part) and it might not be as good as a pure RODI setup can give, but its a far sight better then tap water or more salt water.

If you've only had to top off twice, you probably are good! But its just another thing to consider, especially where your 'nem is unhappy. Your salinity might be too high!

My tank uses 3-4 gallons of water a day, and I have an automatic topup pump that fills it anytime it falls below the level I set. Its a great convenience.

Sounds great! I can get RO water pretty easy if the LFS doesn't have it. I wonder, because they sell freshwater too, what system that goes through and if that would work. We will ask all of this when we go! Thanks!

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[lpsouth1978]

I would also recommend starting some water changes. you now have corals and an anemone in the tank and they will require stable params and lower nutrients. I have a 40 gallon system and do a 5g waterchange weekly. This helps me keep my params rock solid, at least until things grow in a bit more and I need to start dosing.

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds to me like you took on WAY too much too early for the anemone. The tank has a number of issues that need to be addressed before you are likely to succeed with one. Keep learning and asking questions, we have all been where you are, and made many mistakes along the way.

I hope the nem is able to pull through, though it has a tough road ahead.

 

[Uncle99]

Nems require intense light, near perfect water, consistent and stable within the NSW parameters, usually found in tanks beyond 6 months minimum.
Without any measurements of what's in the water you get and what's in the water you have in your DT, at one point, your system will crash.
At minimum, excluding corals, you must have stable salinity, temp and a PH of at least 7.8.
You might be surprised at the quality of the stores water.

I would not move the nem at all, be cautious of intakes where he may get stuck, leave him alone, and if he starts falling apart, discard,

When he stays in one spot for more than a month, he's found home. It may not be where you like it.