Newbie build planning - 36 gallon FOWLR tank with mantis shrimp

[Scrapdragon]

Hi guys! I posted once in the newbie forum and am happily reading everything in the mantis shrimp forum, but thought I might post a build thread over here and get some feedback/ask stupid newbie questions over here as slightly more appropriate for general non-shrimpy questions


I'm planning a FOLWR setup in a 36 gallon bowfront with 10 gallon sump- inheriting the aquarium from a friend. 30 across by 15 deep by 21 tall. Has a hood but the lights in it are clearly not going to be what I want for saltwater, and I haven't even really started my research on that.

Currently my stocking list is planned as follows- I'm picking with an eye towards nothing so rare that I will cry if the shrimp gets it, as I'm aware that even the shellfish eaters/smashers WILL go after fish if hungry or pestered:

1 mantis shrimp (leaning towards o. havenesis or one of the other not-huge species)
2 yellow-tailed damselfish
astraea snails (realize they may get eaten)
MAYBE a gramma basslet - I'm researching this one still.


I'm planning on doing a combo of dry and live rock - I am sure there are awesome Dallas sources for live rock but a couple of visits to Fish Gallery and DNA haven't really sold me on either one as far as shapes of rock goes, and I think with dry and some silicone I'll be better able to at least build the main structure of my aquascaping without worrying so much about the cost or it drying out while I'm putzing.

The tank is, I believe, tempered glass, so I'm planning on a HOB overflow (looking at the E-Shopps PF-300, which is rated for up to 50 gallons) and ... that's as far as I've gotten. I have gotten totally lost on protein skimmers though- too many choices and while I understand what they DO, I don't quite have a feel for what makes one so much more expensive or another so cheap- ditto with pumps and powerheads. So any advice there would be totally appreciated.

Lighting, I want to go ahead and do LEDs, but I haven't even STARTED that research. I don't have any real interest in doing corals right now, but that could change in the future. (If I do, they will be hardy, beginner type corals, and probably just one. I also like fanworms and that might be a thing for the future too, but I'm trying to keep ti simple for now, or as simple as saltwater can get.)

 

[Neebles]

No fish are really safe with a mantis...Dont be surprised if they start to disappear....

 

[Scrapdragon]

Yeah, I know. First thing they say on all the mantis info sheets, and definitely taking it into account.

 

[GT350pwns]

I would stick to damsels as they are cheap to replace as an ornamental meal lol

Reef octopus skimmers are awesome. I love mine to death.

Reefbreeders or their ebay counterparts are great. I love my fixture and it has been growing sps just fine so it is more than sufficient for anything you could dabble in with the mantis tank. They provide a good, controlled LED fixture for the money.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

No fish are really safe with a mantis...Dont be surprised if they start to disappear....

THIS!

Go buy a two gallon tank for the mantis and do your fish separate.

 

[Butterbean]

This person knows what they want and 2 gallons is not sufficient for the intended stomotapod... I wouldnt do a royal gramma... the damsels have a good chance at mauling it

 

[nmotz]

THIS!

Go buy a two gallon tank for the mantis and do your fish separate.

The species that he wants (O. Havanensis) wouldn't do well in a 2 gallon for a variety of reasons, but I do agree that keeping fish w/a mantis is a hazard.

My advice to the OP is to also remember that small mantis shrimp species can sometimes be intimidated by fish so it may have an impact on how interactive he is. That'd be a shame to have an O. Havanensis and never get to see it! From everything I've read they are a highly rated species. Good luck!

 

[Dkuhlmann]

LMAO, you tank size police crack me up. I was referring to the mantis needing it's own tank. To put ANY mantis in a DT with fish is a suicide mission. I could care less if it takes a 2 gal or a 200 gal to house this creature. The point was the same.

 

[nmotz]

LMAO, you tank size police crack me up. I was referring to the mantis needing it's own tank. To put ANY mantis in a DT with fish is a suicide mission. I could care less if it takes a 2 gal or a 200 gal to house this creature. The point was the same.

This is not just about tank size, it's about proper care for a marine animal. This is something that should concern any good aquarist, no? I realize you were recommending that the mantis should be put into its own tank which I agree is sound advice.

The key point is that the OP wants an O. Havanensis, a species of mantis shrimp that is better suited for a tank of something like 20 gallons. We're trying to help him, not police him, and with all due respect it doesn't seem like you are too familiar with keeping mantis shrimp as pets. You just know that they kill fish and that's fine but it's insufficient to provide the OP with anything else of value.

Furthermore, there are *some* examples of fish living peaceably with mantis shrimp. It is possible, though not encouraged.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

This is not just about tank size, it's about proper care for a marine animal. This is something that should concern any good aquarist, no? I realize you were recommending that the mantis should be put into its own tank which I agree is sound advice.

The key point is that the OP wants an O. Havanensis, a species of mantis shrimp that is better suited for a tank of something like 20 gallons. We're trying to help him, not police him, and with all due respect it doesn't seem like you are too familiar with keeping mantis shrimp as pets. You just know that they kill fish and that's fine but it's insufficient to provide the OP with anything else of value.

Furthermore, there are *some* examples of fish living peaceably with mantis shrimp. It is possible, though not encouraged.

My ONLY point was the mantis to have it's own tank. I really couldn't care less what species of mantis it is. The fact of correct husbandry should be a no brainer and not even have to be discussed. If you want to keep certain animals you need to learn their requirements. But again the mantis of any type should be kept ALONE IN IT'S OWN TANK!

I don't sit here and dwell on each and every word someone types. Some things should be left unsaid and understood. Sadly many people don't understand that concept.

The title of this thread alone shouldn't be said in the same sentence!!!!

 

[Scrapdragon]

Thank you, Dkuhlman. I appreciate your vast experience of mantis shrimp, as it definitely outpaces my own. Perhaps you should go over to the mantis shrimp forum and give them your advice.

LFS suggests a canister filter instead of a sump- anyone have an opinion on this? It seems like most o the setups I read about on here use a sump, but they were pretty strongly in favor of the canister.

 

[nmotz]

Thank you, Dkuhlman. I appreciate your vast experience of mantis shrimp, as it definitely outpaces my own. Perhaps you should go over to the mantis shrimp forum and give them your advice.

LFS suggests a canister filter instead of a sump- anyone have an opinion on this? It seems like most o the setups I read about on here use a sump, but they were pretty strongly in favor of the canister.

Canister filters can be successful for mantis shrimp tanks. In fact, when I asked Dr. Roy Caldwell (marine biologist specializing in mantis shrimp research) about it, he said that he uses canister filters on his O. Havanensis tanks. There are a few caveats to this however. Canister filters have to be cleaned out regularly as they can trap a lot of detritus that may lead to excess nitrates in your tank. If you just want a FOWLR though, I don't think a canister filter willl be a problem.

If it were me, I would go with a sump/refugium combo since there is a greater volume of water and you can grow macroalgae to absorb excess nutrients. O. Havanensis' need cleaner more stable water conditions compared to many species of Gonodactylids. Of course, there is a higher start up cost for a sump

Either way, you can be successful, but there are slightly different requirements for each set-up. Enjoy!

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Thank you, Dkuhlman. I appreciate your vast experience of mantis shrimp, as it definitely outpaces my own. Perhaps you should go over to the mantis shrimp forum and give them your advice.

LFS suggests a canister filter instead of a sump- anyone have an opinion on this? It seems like most o the setups I read about on here use a sump, but they were pretty strongly in favor of the canister.

First of all where do you get that I've got or do not have vast experience from anything that I've said?

Again I'll say it slowly since you missed it. IMO mantis shrimp need their own tank and that is because they will kill pretty much everything in it. But I'm sure since you have so much vast experience that you already knew this.

I stated a simple thing in the mantis needed it's own tank and that obviously fell on minds that think too much into anything that is stated, because that particular species had different requirements and needed a larger tank. :fun2:

Bye the way, I've actually had over a dozen mantis shrimp and caught most of them myself. Like I stated also I really don't give a damn what species it is, or what it's actual requirements are. Fact of the matter is that most if not all of anything in it's tank will DIE :deadhorse1:

I've got to laugh at people that think they know what background or knowledge another does or doesn't possess, by simply reading a post on the internet