nitrates wont go below 20

[timrandlerv10]

...i've done water changes, small and large. reduced feedings. extra extra LR. more sand in the fuge and display. made sure the skimmer was happy. still cant get the n'ates below 20.

there is the easy answer i havent done yet--i dont have macro in my fuge. I'll be putting that in this week...either caluerpa or chaeto, with a 16 hour photoperiod.

will that drop it 20 points? i'm afraid it wont...any other ideas?

tim

ammonia 0
nitrites 0
nitrates 20
po4 .1
ph 8.1
alk 10
ca 420
mg 1230

(since starting the two part, alk/ca/mg has been much much better...Tomoko pls thank Bob for me!)

we are also running 4x54 T5 9 hours a day, 2x150MH 1.5 hours a day, and increasing time about 30 minutes a week...hoping to hit 4 hours or so a day.

 

[Mariner]

Take it from someone who just spent a month and a half trying to get nitrates down (and they're finally below 5 :dance: ), it might take awhile for anything you do to have good effect. One thing you don't mention is whether or not you've got any filter media or filter sponges (like those that attach to skimmers or powerheads). These need to be rinsed regularly (weekly at least) or they can really produce nitrates. Also, as you probably know, bioballs and biowheels can become literal nitrate factories over time. They should not be used in a reef tank.
HTH,
good luck,
Mariner

 

[timrandlerv10]

Thanks Mariner.

no filter pads or the like.

what about putting a sock on my downtube to catch junk, and then pulling that out daily/every so often?

my only concern is that i feed brine shrimp about every day, and i know a bunch get blown into the sump...i watch them overflow, skim, bubble trap...and then get pumped back up. and then eaten

what did you do to get it below 5?

 

[8BALL_99]

What are Nitrates? You guys test for those?

Haha, Well have you tried more then one test kit? I've been told several times that Brine shrimp aren't very good food really. They are more of a snack. Even enriched brine arent that great. Also if you dont rinse off your Frozen food that could be adding to the problem. I don't rinse mine but it seems to cause other people problems. If you have enough LR and a good skimmer, you do water changes like you should, you dont have dirty filter media sitting anywhere. Then the problem is probably either you have to high of a bio load or you over feed.

Will

 

[NicoleC]

Like Mariner said, you have to keep at it to bring them down. The macro is a good idea, especially with reverse lighting, as it will help your pH, too. And lots of regular water changes.

Other that checking your test kit, I would not get too hung up on the numbers. How does your livestock look?

 

[The0wn4g3]

First I'd check the test. The expiration dates are actually there for a reason. Who would've thought...
Keep up the water changes. Could be beneficial to switch over to mysis, or rinse the brine with RO water before feeding. Make sure your RO/DI water is still hitthing 0 TDS.
Also, biological supplements can help a lot such as Biozyme.

 

[timrandlerv10]

heh...i use the 'bring it to John' method of testing

brine are a fairly decent food...i asked Tomoko about that, and she gave me a few good articles to read. i would give them to you, but i have no idea where they were since the impact on me was to change 'no' to 'yes.' never thought i'd need it again

rinse them with ro? would that be to get the...'residual' wastes from the water in which they live off them before hitting my tank? that makes sense, but how does one do that? its dinner time, so i'm going to suck up as little water as possible, squirt them into a bowl of ro, and then suck them up with as little water as possible...

ok...that was quadrupled feeding time! i sure hope the macros suck up enough N and P so i dont have to keep that up!!!

i'll check the ro/di for 0 tds tonight. forgot about that.

what is biozyme?

i have lots of rock and some deep sand...it seems like the bacteria would grow until it was N limited if there were enough space for them--yes or no? if yes, why hasnt my bacteria grown that much?

how do they look--well, the clowns look great--she's getting fat (queue overfeeding background music) and he looks happy. the anemones are still pretty bleached, but i think they are marginally darker than last week. we're feeding them a bunch too...i'm sure that is the culprit...but i dont want to reduce their feeding at all--i can long term, but until they darken up...

somebody said clams consume N...fact or myth?

 

[JR's Reef]

How old is the tank? First of all they didnt get there over night so there not going to go away over night. A fuge with macro works great. Staying on top of water changes is a must. Cutting back on food and not using brine would help for sure. Ive had a couple of tanks ive never got below 20.

 

[8BALL_99]

You are probably just feeding more then your tank can handle. Fish are pretty easy they dont need a ton of food. Also if your tank isn't loaded with critters and coral it would probably be a good idea to turn your pumps off and only feed what the fish can eat in a min or so. I don't rinse my frozen, never have.. But I've read that if your having trouble with WQ its a good thing to do. Made since to me since I've had several different cultures of critters including brine and the water is always pretty funky.

All these posts about Nitrates made me pickup a Test kit to check mine lol..

Will

 

[Mariner]

All these posts about Nitrates made me pickup a Test kit to check mine lol..

So what was the reading????? You're killing us with suspense!!!

I think the main tool for reducing nitrates is patience. It just takes awhile. Likely won't happen while you're intentionally overfeeding anemones. As has been said, other tools include macro, water changes and lots of good LR -- all of which you are doing or plan on doing.

As far a brine goes, its decent food, although not the most nutritious -- I think Ron Shimek uses it extensively in his tanks for exactly that reason. I'm sure the info Tomoko gave you had the full scoop on it. But personally I like to feed a variety --brine, formula 2, mysis, flake, nori, spirulina and occasionally homemade.
FWIW,
Mariner

 

[timrandlerv10]

i guess i got a little ahead of myself there...i thought the last step in the N process was the bacteria that live on the LR pulling it out--and with a lot of rock, i could handle lots of N.

i throw other foods in there often--formula 2 flake, ora glow, cyclopeeze, seafood buffet. i just do the brine lots--she seems to be doing very well on a brine-heavy diet (i know looks arent everything, but she does seem to be doing well, and i've always thought that should count for something!).

i am actually going to have to move some rock in order for there to be enough room to put some caluerpa in there...think i could jam it in my bubble trap?

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12898562#post12898562 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mariner
So what was the reading????? You're killing us with suspense!!!

Mariner

Haha, It will just make you mad...Both 190 and the 92 were Zero. But the test didn't have a reading between .5 and 0 so you never know I could have .2 or somethin :rolleye1: I started to test the 35 also, but it took like 15 mins to test the other two so that pretty much got me out of the mood to test!

Tim, You feed your anemone Brine shrimp?? I always feed mine a single large peice of something.. Like white shrimp or silversides. or just a chunk of fish.

Will

 

[stephish]

LOL Will you're a beast! 0 nitrates, I'm happy at 5.

The test kits have expiration dates? jk

 

[The0wn4g3]

Yea, rinsing brine in RO will remove any waste that was frozen with the brine. It seems the Hikari brine that I use has become much cleaner over the last few years. The easiest way is to soak the brine in some RO water an then pour it through a coffee filter or paper towel or something.
Biozyme is basically a type of bacterial "supplement". It's a dry powder for of bacteria that's usually used to seed LR/shorten cycling time. It's pretty good at boosting the bacteria in the tank. There's a few products like it (TLC). I would imagine they all work about the same.

 

[Mariner]

Haha, It will just make you mad...Both 190 and the 92 were Zero.

Nah, I'm not mad. That's what I would expect. Although, it would have been pretty funny if you got a reading of 76 or something like that
Actually, since the initital cycle, mine have always tested Zero in my 75g as well as in the 40g when it was set up. Of course my test kit is cheaper than yours. It measures in increments from 0 to 5 to 10 to 20 to 40...etc. They could actually be 2 and still get a reading of "0" I guess.
Mariner

 

[timrandlerv10]

i feed the nems silversides or seafood buffet.
'she who shall not be named' will share her flake food, so sometimes i give her half a formula two flake, and she'll bring it to her nem du jour.

heh...the brine are live, not frozen, but i guess the concept is still good?



HEY WILL! i got it...can i swap forty gallons of water with you?

 

[NicoleC]

Your clown is not sharing food with her anemone, she's trying to save some for later. No one said clowns are smart.

Shimek says that large chunks of food are not good for anemones, and that small pieces or well-chopped food is much preferred.

 

[bassetbros]

I thaw out frozen foods in tank water then pour the water out and add the food...the coffee filter thing is a good idea.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

I believe that Tim is feeding live adult brine to his fish. It is not necessary to rinse them before giving them to fish. It is a good idea to treat them with Selcon or gut load them with phytoplankton high in n-3 HUFA like Nannochloropsis, though, since their lipid content is lower than baby brine shrimp.

A lot of people are let to believe that bbs is much better food than adult brine shrimp. However, adult brine shrimp has much higher protein level (approx. 50% more) than bbs according to this article/manual.

The additional benefit is:

"Artemia juveniles and adults are used as a nursery diet not only for their optimal nutritional value but also for energetic advantages as well. For example, when offered large Artemia instead of freshly-hatched nauplii, the predator larvae need to chase and ingest less prey organisms per unit of time to meet their food requirements.
This improved energy balance may result in a better growth, a faster developmental rate, and/or an improved physiological condition as has been demonstrated in lobster, shrimp, mahi-mahi, halibut and Lates larviculture. "

As for anemone-clown relationship and anemone feeding, I read the same thing as what Nicole mentioned, but the source was another expert's article. This time more than two experts seem to agree....

When it comes to nitrate reduction, it sounds like Tim tried just about everything that people normally recommend for that. Chaetomorpha would be my choice of macro rather than caulerpa.

I have a sneaky suspicion that Tim is feeding his critters much more than I would.

Tomoko

 

[The0wn4g3]

Oh, live adult brine. Gotcha. I wouldn't rinse those off then haha.
But, I would definitely recommend rinsing the silver sides. I know the brand I used to use had a ton of oil. When I fed the skimmer would go crazy because of the oils.