No ich signs to covered in two days

[Chihuahua6]

I had six tiny to small fish in quarantine with live rock: 2" Yellow Tang, 1.5" Cherub Angel, 1" Royal Gramma, -1" Clown Goby, 3" Midas Blenny, 4" Blue Gudgeon Goby (thin wormlike shape). Water parameters are stable, no ammonia etc.

They have been in there from 1 to 3 weeks, all eating well and acting normal. Suddenly the Midas Blenny begins to flash on the rocks. The next day the angel dies for no apparant reason.

The same evening the angel died I decided to use the tank transfer method to treat the fish. All fish are removed and placed into a seperate tank with new saltwater. Powerhead and heater are sterilized before placing into tank. PVC pipe is placed into the tank. Ammonia badge placed in tank. Fish eat well for two days.

This morning, 2 1/2 days later, the Tang is covered with ich and hours later dies. The royal Gramma looks stressed. The Midas Blenny has a few spots but is eating and seems ok. The other Blenny and Goby seems ok.

What the hell. How can he die so fast? Yesterday he was eating everything including nori and had been doing well for the past few weeks. I know the tank change created some stress but I removed the fish from the contamintaed tank and put them into a clean tank. I don't know how the ich can cover the fish so quickly. Doesn't ich need several days to reproduce? How can it just cover the fish in 2 1/2 days? I am disgusted.

 

[b0bab0ey]

How long before all this started was the last fish added? What you are describing sounds more like Velvet than Ich to me. TT doesn't work on Velvet.

 

[Chihuahua6]

The last fish added was the Blue Gudgeon Goby. He was added about 1 1/2 weeks ago. Everything else was added over two weeks ago.

 

[b0bab0ey]

The last fish added was the Blue Gudgeon Goby. He was added about 1 1/2 weeks ago. Everything else was added over two weeks ago.

Hmm... Velvet usually becomes fatal within days, not 1 1/2 weeks later. Although I have read that if the LFS you bought the infected fish from was running low dose copper, that can mask Velvet for awhile.

If these were my fish, I would abandon TT and start treating with copper. Or I don't know if you possibly have access to QS or CP. Any of those three treats both Ich & Velvet, so you'd be covered either way. Velvet is hard to cure though.

 

[dankreef]

Ich is nasty parasite. In my experience it can be 2 days or 2 weeks it depends on the fish and how good its immune system is doing. You can't have live rock in a QT because the ich could have been on the fish before and lived in the rock or the tang probably had it and the xfer just stressed him out enough for it to really show (ich loves weak fish). Treatments for ich vary obviously im sure you have read up on them. I only use copper if the situation is BAD for last ditch try to get ich off method.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I had six tiny to small fish in quarantine with live rock: 2" Yellow Tang, 1.5" Cherub Angel, 1" Royal Gramma, -1" Clown Goby, 3" Midas Blenny, 4" Blue Gudgeon Goby (thin wormlike shape). Water parameters are stable, no ammonia etc.

They have been in there from 1 to 3 weeks, all eating well and acting normal. Suddenly the Midas Blenny begins to flash on the rocks. The next day the angel dies for no apparant reason.

The same evening the angel died I decided to use the tank transfer method to treat the fish. All fish are removed and placed into a seperate tank with new saltwater. Powerhead and heater are sterilized before placing into tank. PVC pipe is placed into the tank. Ammonia badge placed in tank. Fish eat well for two days.

This morning, 2 1/2 days later, the Tang is covered with ich and hours later dies. The royal Gramma looks stressed. The Midas Blenny has a few spots but is eating and seems ok. The other Blenny and Goby seems ok.

What the hell. How can he die so fast? Yesterday he was eating everything including nori and had been doing well for the past few weeks. I know the tank change created some stress but I removed the fish from the contamintaed tank and put them into a clean tank. I don't know how the ich can cover the fish so quickly. Doesn't ich need several days to reproduce? How can it just cover the fish in 2 1/2 days? I am disgusted.

First, next time do not use live rock as the medium of filtration for QT. Use a few cups of crushed coral or even polyester floss, place in a very well stretched out nylon panty hose sack.

Next time make sure you cycle the medium very well , and in advance.

Ammonia can surge very quickly in a tank with marginal nitrification capacity.

TT method is not a good one; the ich that have already found their way onto the fish will not drop off. TT may work better at the very earliest stage of an ich outbreak, when there are still very few attachments onto fish. TT have many other problems IMO. Learn to do hypo or copper.

Sad, ich should be a dead horse issue. Ich can be eradicated very surely and systematically.

 

[Chihuahua6]

I used the live rock because it was cycled and I had extra. I was hoping the fish would not need medication and would only be observed for six weeks.

I am going to copper the surviving fish.

I just don't understand when the ich had time to drop off the fish, reproduce and infect the fish again, all in less than 30 hours.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I used the live rock because it was cycled and I had extra. I was hoping the fish would not need medication and would only be observed for six weeks.

I am going to copper the surviving fish.

I just don't understand when the ich had time to drop off the fish, reproduce and infect the fish again, all in less than 30 hours.

There are a lot of individual ich parasites, that you don't see, in all stages of their life-cycle. Why all the fish in the QT? New fish, or did fish come down with ich in the main tank? TT works very well, at any time, but is difficult with so many fish. Are you testing the ammonia level? One piece of LR would be unlikely to hold enough aerobic bacteria for this fish load. Do not leave the LR in with the copper, it will absorb and release copper; making testing the copper level impossible. Do not use ammonia neutralizers (Prime, Ammo-Lock, etc.) with copper either.

Before you start copper, I'd read the 1st page of the ich stickies above. Ich cures make sense if you understand the parasites life-cycle. IMO, SeaChem Cupramine is the easiest & safest copper; only because I'm familiar with it. Other copper brands work just as well. When you buy he copper; you'll also need a compatible copper test kit and an ammonia-alert badge. SeaChem copper test if you use Cupramine. Most ammonia tests don't work in the presence of copper, the alert badges. If you go this route, and I think it may be your only choice, re-post and someone will help you. All copper has little tweaks that differ from the bottles directions.

Copper will take care of velvet too; but if this is velvet, you don't have much time. velvet can wipe out a tank in a couple of days. As b0bab0ey said above, this could easily be velvet.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I used the live rock because it was cycled and I had extra. I was hoping the fish would not need medication and would only be observed for six weeks.

I am going to copper the surviving fish.

I just don't understand when the ich had time to drop off the fish, reproduce and infect the fish again, all in less than 30 hours.

Ich on fish takes time to grow and increase in size for you to see.

On cycling, one has to think quantitatively also.

If all the LR in the DT has been supporting the livestock, just taking a small part of the LR out will not be enough nitrification in QT to support all the livestock.

Just because some LR is taken from a tank that is "cycled" does not mean there will be enough nitrification bacteria to process the ammonia in QT.

 

[Chihuahua6]

All fish are new. All are very small as stated above. Ammonia is tested for as well as ammonia badge as mentioned in first post.

Read the stickies above. Fish were transferred into clean tank. Rock was not transferred with them as stated above. Two days later Tang was covered with ich. That's what confuses me.

 

[MrTuskfish]

All fish are new. All are very small as stated above. Ammonia is tested for as well as ammonia badge as mentioned in first post.

Read the stickies above. Fish were transferred into clean tank. Rock was not transferred with them as stated above. Two days later Tang was covered with ich. That's what confuses me.

This isn't unusual at all. Various stages of ich are not visible. Read the 1st page of the ich stickies, you really need to understand the life cycle. Snorvich explains it well in this sticky: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196.

 

[wooden_reefer]

All fish are new. All are very small as stated above. Ammonia is tested for as well as ammonia badge as mentioned in first post.

Read the stickies above. Fish were transferred into clean tank. Rock was not transferred with them as stated above. Two days later Tang was covered with ich. That's what confuses me.

The TT method does not involve any treatment but just exploits the lifecycle of the ich. Precisely, it exploits the fact that ich always leave their fish host, to multiply in numbers later. Then, most ich organisms die without finding a host.

It is obvious that after a case of moderate infestation, ich concentration could rise rapidly later to very high numbers. If the fish is exposed in this timing, there will be very little sign but very serious infestation that are indiviudally very small. This likely was your case.

Yes, the smaller the fish the smaller the impact of ammonia in a given situation, but no ammonia is best.