ozone injection question

[tom obrecht]

I'm looking to inject ozone into my reef tank. However as I sit here and wait for my new Euro Reef skimmer to arrive I noticed that Euro Reef does NOT recommend anyone to inject ozone into their units. Supposably it yellows the acrylic and possible deteriorates the integrity of the skimmer. So here's my thought. What if I purchase a small cheap skimmer and inject the ozone into that and use that as a type of ozone reactor...think this will work?

 

[eckrynock]

Ozone is very dangerous and must be treated properly. Using a skimmer to inject ozone is not a very safe or effective way to accomplish the task. There are a lot of ways to be exposed to ozone when injecting it into a skimmer. You must seal off all possible exits with carbon. Second, a cheap skimmer will not allow the water and ozone long enough contact time. If this is going on your 420, you may want to look into an ozone reactor. I built my own using plans along these lines:
http://www.thesea.org/reef_aquarium/DIY/reactors/reactors_ozone.php

 

[tom obrecht]

Thanks for the link! I have been searching for something like that. Yes I'm thinking of adding ozone to the 420. I'm waiting to see if the new skimmer will do the job before adding anything but thought I would do my homework prior to going ahead with anything. So is ozone dangerous even in small amounts?

 

[eckrynock]

This is the reactor I have:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=956483&highlight=ozone+reactor

Here are some articles on ozone:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

As far as height and diameter, I can't help you much on a tank that size. The taller, the better, and use lots of bio-balls.

 

[lvpd186]

Re: ozone injection question

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10355641#post10355641 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tom obrecht
I'm looking to inject ozone into my reef tank. However as I sit here and wait for my new Euro Reef skimmer to arrive I noticed that Euro Reef does NOT recommend anyone to inject ozone into their units. Supposably it yellows the acrylic and possible deteriorates the integrity of the skimmer. So here's my thought. What if I purchase a small cheap skimmer and inject the ozone into that and use that as a type of ozone reactor...think this will work?

Euro reef skimmer! What happened to getting one of those volcano skimmers? I was living an equipment dream through you and now its gone ( ). I think the problem with ozone and skimmers is the type of acrylic used, as in cast verses extruded. Extruded acrylic is usually heavy duty and thicker and I believe it is safe to run ozone through. Cast acrylic is usually the lighter weight, thin stuff. (according to euro-reef's site their stuff is made with cell cast acrylic). Anyway what has you leaning towards using ozone?

 

[tom obrecht]

The skimmer selection came down to a couple things. First time. The Volcano's builder (Spazz here on RC) said he was really backed up at the time I talked to him and mentioned it would be awhile before he could get to it. Second was cost. His cheapest volcano was $3100 and he mentioned to me that he would recommend the next size up for me which was going to run $4500. Perhaps if I had tons and tons of rare sps corals and tons and tons of rare expensive fish I might consider it. However I have hairy rocks right now and I couldn't justify (nor stayed married ) if I sprang for something that expensive!! I did end up going with a Euro Reef RC 750. This has 4 Eheim 1262 pumps and pulls 3000lph of air...almost double what my Deltec runs at. I figure if this unit doesn't get the job done nothing will. I also saved alot of money compared to a comperable Deltec or Volcano.

Second...ozone. I'm considering ozone to clean up the tank of algae, clear the water and help the fish handle disease easier. This topic is highly debatable and to be honest the more I research the more I'm confused. Some swear by it and others give it the kiss of death! I think I will wait to see what results the skimmer brings. I'm hoping with the increased capacity of the skimmer I can kick the algae and get on with the fun part of the hobby.

To top it all off I just got done installing new lights on the tank. For some reason the setup that I had on the old tank looked different on this tank. Too much yellow in the light...even with actinics. Ended up getting the 12K Reeflux bulbs and so far I like the look. I will post some pics under my new tank thread in the next few days. I'll also show some shots of the new skimmer when it arrives.

 

[lvpd186]

I can understand not getting the volcano. If I spent that much for a skimmer I would be sleeping in the car (if I'm lucky enough to get a car that is). Euro Reef's are suppose to be great skimmers & I'm sure it will help out things. As for ozone I really don't know enough about it to lean one way or the other. On one side of the coin it means extra equipment, including the ozone equipment itself and probably an ORP monitor, and something else that you need to keep an eye on. On the other side of the coin it could provide some benefit to the tank, but according to that last article posted the only measurable benefit seen was a slight increase in water clarity. For an algae problem I would almost think UV would be more effective, but I'm not positive about that either. I will say that according to our local expert (Mitch) the only real answer to an algae problem is to increase the amount of animals in the tank that will eat it. I'm looking forward to seeing the updated photos. Good luck!

 

[huskerreef]

I just added 750 snails to eat my algae and it still there. only been a week.

 

[tom obrecht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10368170#post10368170 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by huskerreef
I just added 750 snails to eat my algae and it still there. only been a week.

Well this a concern that I have....adding more fish, snails, crabs ect and not getting any results. Then I end up with things in the tank I really didn't want from the start that aren't helping the problem at hand. I have added a foxface and naso tang to my system and they haven't touched any of the algae. Could be to soon to say. The problem is that I don't really care for either one of these fish and if they don't do what I put them in there to trying to get them out could be a real pain.

I have backed my photo period back to see if that helps. I still believe that this stuff is feeding off some level of something but I can't figure out what. I haven't tested for phosphates for I know there are different kinds and not all can be detected from every test. This is why I ordered a new skimmer for I hope it will deal with the nutrient level better. This is also the reason I'm considering ozone...to better clean the water.

Any other ideas people have. I think I have come up with a new motto for this hobby.

Reef keeping is where Murphy's law and your bank account collide with each other!

 

[lvpd186]

I would fully agree with that Reef Law! Hopefully your new skimmer will help out. I agree that having excessive nutrients in the water is part of the problem, after all the algae has to be feeding on something. I think what Mitch was talking about, and maybe he'll chime in, is that established algae is hard to get rid of. You can eliminate the stuff feeding the algae to a certain extent which would (hopefully) stop new algae from growing and impede the growth of the established algae. By doing that your clean up crew has a chance to "catch up" with the algae and mow it down. For example I started to get some clumps of hair algae in my tank. My skimmer wasn't the problem, it is way over-sized. What I think was the problem was over feeding (I was giving some flake food during the day and then some frozen food at night). I cut way back on feeding and it seemed like the algae stopped spreading, but the established stuff was still there. Slowly my clean-up crew has made some progress and a lot of it is gone now. Jim's situation is kind of different. All of the algae is in his lagoon and there isn't any in his display tank. My guess is that the lagoon is collecting stuff like a sump would and there is a build up of nutrients. Maybe having the hugh clean-up crew will be able to get that algae mowed down and kept in check. Either way I'm still not sold on ozone, but maybe that will help out your situation.

 

[lvpd186]

Ozone reactor

Ozone reactor

Ok Tom, here is the reactor I came up with. I more or less followed the plans on that web site. I think it should work pretty good, I guess Jim will be the guinea pig for that though.

The whole thing is just over 24" tall so I think it will give plenty of surface area for the ozone to have contact with the water.

 

[tom obrecht]

I'll be anxious to see how it works. Looks good from the pictures.

 

[huskerreef]

well me and Brad officially hooked up the ozone and reactor today. One issue we encountered was the back pressure on the air dryer from this being a somewhat closed system. Basically it blows the cap off and you have little blue balls everywhere. We came to the conclusion that the air is not passing through quick enough. We drilled out the orafice slightly and used a zip tie to make sure it can't come apart again. So far all is well, the orp porbe is still adjusting (i hope) and the water looks clearer already. not sure if it ozone or the carbon. Although it only a pound of carbon for 1340 gallons so it may be the ozone cleaning the water. I will keep all posted.

 

[tom obrecht]

So how is the ozone application going? Any noticable improvements yet?

 

[huskerreef]

So far I have noticed the clarity of the water, especially in my lagoon. I don't believe that 1 lb of carbon would make that big a difference on 1300 gallond of water. A small technical issue this morning when I found that the fitting where the ozone is injected into the reator was cracked and leaking a small amount of water and ozone, so I picked up a new one and getting it back on line this eve. Still breaking in the orp probe, it started at 77 and has been steadily climbing up to 286 now. I have heard it takes a few days to settle in and get a good reading. The air dryer already needs to be recharged by baking it for a few minutes on very low heat, 110 degrees. I may relocated the air pump a bit further away so it doesn't pick up as much humidity off the water. At this point I am going to say ozone is making a difference and time will tell how the algae issues will change.

 

[lvpd186]

So that JG fitting cracked? Thats a bummer, did you get the same fitting or something different? If the new one goes bad let me know and I'll try and find a fitting that is more ozone safe. The hard part is finding a 1/4" barb locally. The only other ones I could find were brass and I'm sure that would be a bad idea.

 

[tom obrecht]

Keep me posted. My algae is slowly disappearing and I continue to maunally harvest it. However what is left continues to put fine particulate pieces into the water column. I still would like to try ozone at some point just to see how clear the water can become as well as help the system with organics.

So do you think your ORP was really that low or just took some time for the probe to work? If you would do it again would you go with a larger air dryer? Think they make a 500 grm size. How does the ozone generator work? Could you double up the dryers to save time drying beads? I've also heard alot of people don't even use a dryer for the reason you mentioned. Not sure what the outcome would be for that.

What do you have your orp controller set at? Does it run all the time trying to gget the orp up to the set amount? I'm surious for if I go with ozone I'm wondering if I get a small one and it runs most of the time if that is better than a larger one that runs occassionally. Just curious?

 

[lvpd186]

Proper fitting

Proper fitting

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10555282#post10555282 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by huskerreef
So far I have noticed the clarity of the water, especially in my lagoon. I don't believe that 1 lb of carbon would make that big a difference on 1300 gallond of water. A small technical issue this morning when I found that the fitting where the ozone is injected into the reator was cracked and leaking a small amount of water and ozone, so I picked up a new one and getting it back on line this eve. Still breaking in the orp probe, it started at 77 and has been steadily climbing up to 286 now. I have heard it takes a few days to settle in and get a good reading. The air dryer already needs to be recharged by baking it for a few minutes on very low heat, 110 degrees. I may relocated the air pump a bit further away so it doesn't pick up as much humidity off the water. At this point I am going to say ozone is making a difference and time will tell how the algae issues will change.

Jim, I contacted usplastics and they said that this fitting would be ozone safe and saltwater safe. If the new fitting you got fails again let me know and I will order some of these. If you decide to just get one let me know I may want to order some extras for future projects. Sorry for the setbacks, this ozone thing is kind of new to me as well. :mixed:

 

[huskerreef]

No problem Brad, all is repaired. I set my ORP at 400 and I would find it hard to believe that my ORP started out well below 100. It is now up to 287 as of this morning. I have read where it can take up to a week to settle in. The ozonizer that I have is set at the max for output at 224mg and has been running non stop. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few days. It only took about 15 minutes to dry the beads but that could be a pain if it needs done several times aweek. may look into a bigger dryer. I will keep everyone posted.