Phosphates and Nitrates

W

Westpat

New member
Hi,
I am working on trying to get my 75g back into good shape. I have been doing water changes, and my phosphates have come down from 2.0ppm to about .3ppm. I am happy with that. I am upset though that in the same course of water changes my nitrates have only come down from 30 to 20ppm.
I would expect to see a proportional drop with the phosphates. I am going to do a 25g water change today. I am just wondering what might be keeping my nitrates so high.
I have taken out about 25lbs of live rock, and I am in the process of removing about an inch of my DSB. The tank is about 11 years old. I do have a 5g refugium but I have just added chaetomorpha to it after having nothing in it for a while.

Any help is appreciated.
David
 
After your change, your nitrates should drop to about 13 or so based on the percent of water your are changing.

As far as them being high, do you have a skimmer? Is it working properly? Is your refugium light old? Those would be the first two things I would check.
 
I have three fish; two pajamas and a tomato clown all full size.
I only have two turbo snails as far as cleanup goes so that could be the case.
I am just now starting to see pods again on the glass and in the refugium.
David
 
Just throwing ideas out there.

If you have socks, or bio-balls, you might want to check them(could be dirty).

Good luck.
 
Westpat said:
Hi,
I am working on trying to get my 75g back into good shape. I have been doing water changes, and my phosphates have come down from 2.0ppm to about .3ppm. I am happy with that. I am upset though that in the same course of water changes my nitrates have only come down from 30 to 20ppm.
I would expect to see a proportional drop with the phosphates. I am going to do a 25g water change today. I am just wondering what might be keeping my nitrates so high.
I have taken out about 25lbs of live rock, and I am in the process of removing about an inch of my DSB. The tank is about 11 years old. I do have a 5g refugium but I have just added chaetomorpha to it after having nothing in it for a while.

Any help is appreciated.
David
Click to expand...


Ok well based on experience if the tank has been setup for 11 years stirring up the sand bed is a bad idea it holds alot of built up toxins and being mixed will release nitrates back into the tank. The chaeto will help but nitrates take time to go down I wouldn't do large water changes cause you will affect the good colony of bacteria in the tank throwing off levels again. I would only do 5% water changes daily maybe every other day until it goes down. Nitrates typically do not affect fish until around 40 ppm corals well on the other hand will start to see the affect of nitrates at around 5ppm. I had an issue with nitrates but with 5 % water changes and my skimmer it went down quickly. Don't remove any LR it acts as a natural filter and will help keep levels under control also. Nitrates could be high for a number of reasons. 1 stirring up the sand bed releasing anything it was holding back into the tank. 2 removing a large amount of good bacteria by doing a large water change or changing the filter source too quickly either by rinsing it or removing something that was being used to filter causing the tank to have to repopulate the good bacteria. Im sure there are other reasons i just can't think of but hope this helps
 
Yes, well now I am starting to get this ugly brown film over everything. You know the kind of thing you see in new tanks. That is really annoying! So I am just going to keep up with a regimen of smaller water changes every few days.(Limited by my schedule)
I do have a sock with Kent nitrate remover down in the sump. The processed water from the skimmer is flowing over it. It said on the package it can take several weeks to work though.
I have been removing part of my sand bed with each water change, because I thought it was old and stale. I guess I had the opposite effect I was hoping for and actually hurt the tank in the short term.

Keep the ideas coming please,
Thanks,
David
 
Westpat said:
Yes, well now I am starting to get this ugly brown film over everything. You know the kind of thing you see in new tanks. That is really annoying! So I am just going to keep up with a regimen of smaller water changes every few days.(Limited by my schedule)
I do have a sock with Kent nitrate remover down in the sump. The processed water from the skimmer is flowing over it. It said on the package it can take several weeks to work though.
I have been removing part of my sand bed with each water change, because I thought it was old and stale. I guess I had the opposite effect I was hoping for and actually hurt the tank in the short term.

Keep the ideas coming please,
Thanks,
David
Click to expand...

yea its a diatom (if that is spelled right lol) out break it should go away once the nitrates go away i have that issue right now since i switched my tanks to my project tank
 
Update,
The nitrrate is still around 20ppm but the phosphates are down below .25. The diatom outbreak has quelled and even though I am still changing water, I am leaving the substrate alone. The problem now is these bubbles collecting all over my live rock. They are about the size of a grape seed, and as soon as I swish them off the rocks, they are back in about an hour or two. This is not an normal occurence in the tank, and I am convinced these are not "micro-bubbles".
Any suggestions???
Thanks,
David
 
Sounds like you've taken out to much bio filtration and your tank is trying to cycle. I would not take out anything till the tank settled back down. Keep an eye on your ammonia levels also. IME water changes did not help much with P04. A good cleaning with a water change did the trick. Sock filter should be changed regular. If you've had this tank 11 yrs your doing something right. Also a good CUC is a good thing. Best of luck. Also +1 on not disrupting that sand bed.
 
So my tank is still high on the nitrates. Thought I had a saltwater ammonia test, but I did not. So I have not tested that. I am getting the red slime here and there and green hair algae on the upper rocks. I have not seen that in forever, so I am of the agreement that the tank is re-cycling. Thechaeto in my refugium is doing fine, but the refugium itself just looks nasty. Hard to explain.
Should I clean out the refugium?
Will that put too much strain on things?
Could it have gone stale and it is the cause of my nitrate problems?
5g refugium attached to a 20g sump and a 75g tank.
Also would it help to add more crabs and snails. I have zero cleanup crew.
Thanks for your time,
David
 
Wespat sounds like a few things. IMO your doing a good thing by asking before you make any changes. It's always a great idea to see others opinions. It may be best if you could go to your LFS and get the name of a good maintenance person. Should cost you around $50.00 and let someone come out and put there hands and eyes on your tank. But they should show you how to clean it and maybe give you a good push in the right direction. I just think a professional is a good idea. I did this a while back and my tank took off after some good husbandry was in place.
I would be careful with your fuge as far as cleaning it. You don't want to disrupt to much of your biofiltration. Second get you an ammonia test. Third I think a cleanup crew is a good idea. Check out reefcleaners.com here I think you get the biggest bang for your buck. And last for the red slime. You could be overfeeding. And good water circulation is a must. You may need to adjust or buy another powered. Again I'd get a pro out to your house and let him show you what needs to be done. I think it will save you lots in the long run also it should get you on track so you can sit back and enjoy your tank. Good luck and keep us posted. And remember this is only my opinion
 
DSB can become a problem if not maintained well with a proper sand sifting crew such as spagettii worms and other sand dwelling polychaetes.

What is your DSB composed of? Is it fine grain sand? Coarser materials are not recommended because it can trap a bunch of stuff that can decay and turn you water eutrophic. Your algae issue definitely indicates a high nitrate and phosphate issue.

If your chaetomorpha is looking dirty with detritis and film algae, it does not hurt to rinse it in a bucket with your tank water. Chaeto may be covered up with gunk and not photosynthesizing well. If it is green and not crumbling, it shoud be alive.

It's hard to tell what's going on in your tank without seeing it. I know it's a lot of work, but you might consider removing or replacing the DSB. It's not easy to remove a layer of DSB without causing a lot of havoc.
 
Great Big Shout Out!!!!

Great Big Shout Out!!!!

Just want to thank MarkieMark for giving up part of his Sunday afternoon to help critique and rework my tank. We completely took out the old DSB and retooled the rock work. Also cleaned out the refugium. So now that it is 230 am and the cloud has finally cleared, I am very happy with our efforts. My wife just got home from work and we are admiring the tank.
Mark was a huge help and a great reefer, I cannot tell him how much I appreciate him reaching out to help me.
Thanks again and I will keep everyone updated as we move forward!
David:rollface:
 
Do you think the tank will cycle again from removing DSB? I hope all goes well and post some photos later after its settled down.
 
I don't think it will cycle again..we used all of his same live rock and saved a decent amount of his water from the tank..pretty much all we did is get out the old sand and do a decent water change on the tank....the water looked like black mud once it was stirred up and thats what was causing his issue with out a doubt...I think he is gonna see alot better results soon...theres no way anything was gonna get better the way it was...
 
Things seem to be great with no ammonia showing. Nitrates have come down drastically. Mark had a good plan and we used tank water to rinse the rock, and we put back as much as we could. We filtered it to keep from putting the sludge back in. The fish and corals look great, and honestly more healthy than before. Thanks again to Mark for his time and know how!!
David
 
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