Photos Of Problem

[lmcgrew79]

Well here are my results with my nuisance/problem. Ive contacted all-glass and emailed them pictuces below plus some, and while talking to them on the phone, there telling me its a problem with my lighting and that it is algae. I told them i disagree, that i think there is a faulty silicone, i have current usa pc lighting, havent see this problem and if it was an algae i would be able to remove it. Ive also contacted jo-mars where i purchased the tank and neither jo-mars or all-glass seem to want to help me with the problem or replace the tank. Im quite upset in the fact that ive spent alot of money in the past 2 months on the hobby and this is the results im getting with this problem. Nobody knows the problem nor does anyone seem to care or have a solution. Hopefully it will somehow go away. Nothing like having my first tank setup up in my living room with neon green silicone in the corners. Looks real nice let me tell ya. Anyways, for anyone who cares here are the links to the pictures, sorry for the ranting and raving, but im not happy!

 

[firefish2020]

Ive also contacted jo-mars where i purchased the tank and neither jo-mars or all-glass seem to want to help me with the problem or replace the tank.

Excuse me?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=818220

I was the 3rd to post a response to you're question.
Further I don't recall ever being asked about your problem at the shop in person, nor by phone.

If Barry has no idea what something is he passes it on to me. Hence I assume he thinks it's the same thing as me and warrants no refund in this case. However I am siding with All Glass on this one. The green stain is algae IMO, it seems to be illuminated by your actinic lighting. I have seen this type of algae which in actuality is not an algae at all it is a bacteria and is not caused by light but by overly rich nutrient conditions.

I understand your frustration but:

...Nobody knows the problem nor does anyone seem to care or have a solution...

You need to realize a few things here, we are not marine biologists, we are hobbyists. Sometimes our approach to this hobby amounts to little more than saltwater alchemy rather than a bonnified science. If someone promised you a perfect saltwater tank and told you that you would have "no problems", they lied to you. Each and everyone here has had problems far worse than green slime algae. I can tell you what it takes to have a well balanced reef tank but the most important part is patience and knowledge from a large body of experienced reef keepers.

I can diagnose the problem for you if you care to answer a few questions.

1. What is your specific Gravity and is it constant
2. What are your nitrate levels
3. What are your phosphate levels
4. What brand of salt are you using
5. How long are your lights on and what is your light cycle if any?
6. What skimmer are you running?
7. How much water flow do you have (total of powerheads in GPH only)
8. How often do you feed and what types of food(s) do you use?
9. What type of animals are in your system?

BTW that looks like a leaf of lettuce in the lower picture. Why would you use lettuce in a SW ? Feed your Tangs Nori it contains important vitamins that terrestrial plants do not have...hmmmm....

Anyone out there know if terrestrial plants could somehow cause a green cyano Problem ?

BTW:
On a personal note I started this club to help people like you, please don't say "no one is trying to help you" and do not start slandering companies or stores here or I will have your thread removed.

Together we can find an answer if you like.

Thank you,
Ron

 

[phljess]

If I recall correctly, you had "cured" some concrete and added it to your tank as base rock. Do you think this may be caused by the leaching of something out of the concrete? However, if it were caused by the concrete leaching I would think it would have been absorbed through all the silicone not just part of it. I believe it is some kind of algae because it seems to be spreading from the light downward. But I am not sure, especially when you say it will not come off. Even if it is algae it can be very difficult to get cleaned off, if you buy a green nylon pad like the ones for washing dishes and start scrubbing (without soap) on the silicone it should come off but it takes quite a bit of effort sometimes. You may also want to look at you light cycle and reduce it and definitely be sure your make-up water is low in nutrients. Besides this I really don't know what else might help.

 

[Reef4Fun]

Re: Photos Of Problem

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7139086#post7139086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lmcgrew79
Nobody knows the problem nor does anyone seem to care or have a solution.


That sure isn't a way to get people to care. I know how frustrating problems can be, but this thread is to help as much as we know how, and I recall about 8 answers to your thread, mine being on of them. Most, mine anyway, was just to let you know that you were being heard and that we did care. Thats all we can do, nothing more. You will get support from here, and meet some great friends, but if make it hard for people to feel comfortable answering your posts, that will make if very difficult for those friendships to happen.
As for the problem. My tank is new also, and I had a huge problem with it being almost completely green. I noticed in your tank it looks like you have new live rock. I purchased live rock from the internet and it looked nice, but did not have the purple on it that I wanted. I notice that it got soooooo green, it took over the tank. I finally went to my favorite LFS and got some good live rock with loads of purple and placed it on top of my other. It helped more than you would know. I also added about a dozen turbo snails and they took care of the green. I don't know if that will help you any, because it looks like the green is in, or under, your silicone. Actually, I did research for you on this (we all have been tring to help), this is what I have found:

Stained tank, Malachite Green
Hi:
<Hello there>
I would really appreciate any help you can give me on this subject. I have
ruined my new fish tank by treating a fish for ich with Rid-Ich+. The
silicone seals have stained blue green.
<Yes... Malachite Green...>
I know that the label on the bottle
warned of this, but I was trying to save my fish and wasn't too worried
about that at the time. Well, now the fish is better and I am left with a
stained tank. Is there anything I can do about this?
Thanks so much!
Laurie van Raalte
<Unfortunately, no. The stain is permanent. Bob Fenner>

Maybe you have used something that reacted like this, I don't know, maybe a food even. I'm reaching for straws here, but I am tring to help you.
Nancy

 

[Reef4Fun]

Oh, and the answer to the letter the girl sent to that person was "no, the stain is permanent"

If this is the case with yours, you could take it down and re-silicone it. I know that is the last thing you would want to do, but if the stain is permanent, and it a problem that occured from you, then that would probably be your only course of action.

 

[lmcgrew79]

Well Ron I'll go in great detail here. I would like you to know i'm not trying to be an a-hole on here, you and other people here have been great help in the short time i've been involved with the trade. By the way when i said nobody, i'm referring to the two places that can help me in this situaiton, the word nobody was not a wise choice of words. Sorry if ive offended anyone here on this post, not my intentions. The point im making is that i,ve called and talked to the two people mentioned earlier, and if the matter was resolved in a different manner, i would still be in quest of a solution.

First off I by no means want a new tank, for the reason I would have to transfer all existing marine life into another tank, not my intentions, would have said worst case scenario.

So here are the details to make myself clear and to let you see my point of view. All-Glass had me to call a marine 800 number about the problem im having, they told me they have never heard of it and believe its not algae if i cannot be scrape it off. I talked to Jim at all-glass again, a lot more detailed, telling them what they told me, he tells me to send pictures, which i did, then says oh never seen it but must be some sort of infared with my lighting making the algae turn green. I stated what type of lights i had and said "so what if i turned the lights off for a long period of time and it still doesnt go away?" He said " it has to be and algae problem." I stated it may be but you can even see the green on the outside of the tank in the silicone. Then i said "ok Jim all im asking is that if there is a problem with the silicone, can i get a replacement. The answer was no, he stated "its not a problem with the silicone, we have never heard of it before and that they only warrenty leaking. " He said "youll have to take this up with your dealer and i doubt they will replace it", after tellin me they dont deal directly with the public, only dealers and distributors, noting if they did send me one it may not arive in one piece. Now Prior to talking to All-Glass i talked to Barry about the situation the same day and the two days prior. I asked them on the phone if this is a problem with the silicone can i get another tank. Answer: No i'll have to take it up with all-glass and i asked for the number and he gave it to me. So that is where i stand a very unhappy camper.

Actually Ron i asked you and Barry about it, about a month ago, you thought it was probably algae, which i did to, this was during my cycling period and nothing was in the tank except for the sand and the shrimp for the cycling period, last week i again asked Barry about it and he said he dont know what it could be.

I know you are neither marine bioliogist, and have alot of other peoples problems but mine, your info has been great, but my gripe is, that it seems that if there is a problem then im basically stuck with it. Thats is no way to solve a problem, and that makes me quite angry. What i was asking was hey if there is a problem with the tank can i get another one, i made it clear i didnt want another tank for the reasons of moving things, i just wanted the security blanket answer after spending a good deal of money that if there is some problem with the tank, it would be taken care of , thats it, and i didnt get that answer.
All i was ever asking was for someone to help me figure out the problem that is why i posted yesterday, but out of frustration i maybe put it out there a little harsh and im sorry, but with the feedback i got from here, from other forums, and from other fish stores, the majority of the answers was "ive never heard of it".

BTW: The lettuce is romaine lettuce and it was from a picture from a few weeks ago, i read that tangs may eat it, it didnt and it is gone, nor will mine eat nori algae as i have 3 bags of it to go to waste. Im still in the learning process and trying to get infomation from different prospectives and people. Im understand nobody has all the answers.
PhilJess the concrete was curing and was not in the tank. It is now and growing coralline algae faster than the base rock. Seems to be doing good with fast growth, but this problem stem before i added the agrocrete.

Ron
1. Gravity 1.025 constistant i keep track of it with reefcon pro
2. 10ppm 2 weeks ago, 10g water change and now not registering
3. Phosphates 0
4. Salt is Instant Ocean
5. Lights on timer 7:00 actinic 8:30 both 8:00pm off 9:00 actinics off
6. No skimmer ive got a deep sand bed, plenum, and eco aqualizer which probably does nothing from what ive read.
7. GPH 2 1200 maxi jets on timer and one 500 gph pump with 3 plumbing outputs
8. Feed once a day and usually frozen brine shrimp i use a turkey baster and feed until the quit eating usually a min or 2
9. one yellow tang, one blue damsel, 50 some crab 2 snails one cleaner shrimp and added a mandarin goby which may be a mistake as ive been told it may starve to death a few ricordia and one coco worm. everything seems to be doing fine as ive added one at a time week in between fish.

P.S.
Again my intentions was not to offend you ron or anyone here in the forum, sorry if you took it that way, but in asking if theres a problem with the tank and its not gonna be corrected, then i would hope that i have the right to post an oppinionated thread of which way the matter was being resolved. Otherwise there is no need for me to post here at all.

Thanks,
Luke

 

[essop3]

"Each and everyone here has had problems far worse than green slime algae. "

I never have had any problems

Do you ever have to clean along the bottom of the tank with a scraper? Maybe need to use the magnet alot? Since those things don't get to the silicone it could be a build up of nasty algae that is best cleaned like Philjess recommended.

 

[lmcgrew79]

I used the magnet alot actually even during my last water change I've tryed scrubing with a rag, my finger nail, the rounded end of a butter knife, nothing will take it off. I looks to be on the outside of the tank also where the silicone is between the two corners of glass. Where the was a lil bit of sloppy silicone i razor bladed some of it off this is one the outside of the tank took a look at it and it has a green tint to it? I just cant believe this is a green slime algae problem but who knows.

 

[mcox33]

okay I never answered sooner, because I have been extremely busy lately, plus the only time I have ever seen anything like this, it was a freshwater tank. the color came through the silcone to the outside. It was an old tank and I was advised to redo the silcone. Instead I took the tank down. soaked it in pure bleach. It removed it from the bottom Then I turned the tank on it's side and let it soak again with new bleach. I did this til it had soaked on all sides . The lip of the tank frame keeps the bleach in but I do suggest you do this outside so you don't ruin your floor. It took a couple of weeks but the (what ever it was finally came out of the silicone. I then let it soak for about a week with decloranator and the tank has been fine ever since. But make sure you rinse it very well then let it sit with the silicone submersed in pure declorinator for at least a week on all sides.

No guarantee that this will work but it did work for me.

Silicone has a tendency to pick up color and mold, mildew, bacterias and other things when we don' t even know they are there. I am assuming you have one in your silcone.

There could have been something alluminacent (sp) in your live rock that decided it would rather live in your silcone. Just because no one else has been lucky enough (or unlucky enough) to get some in their live rock doesn't mean that you did not. And no that would not be the fault of Jo-Mars or All-Glass. I have seen this kind of algea on some of the deep sea tv documentaries that I sometimes watch. It is a new bacteria that they are just starting to find in the mid level oceans. This stuff comes to the surface at night and they think it is fixing the ozone layer in the areas where they have discovered it. SO maybe you can add ozone to the top couple of inches of your tank and it would come out of the silcone to eat the ozone or maybe highly oxygenate the whole tank and kill it because it needs ozone or a carbon dioxide enviroment to live. I don't know what else to tell you. But hopefully something I have said will help you.

 

[LowCel]

This might or might not have anything to do with it. I just noticed your lighting schedule, it is pretty long. You are running lighting a total of 14 hours. You might want to cut that down to around 12 hours with your primary lighting being on 9 or 10 hours.

I didn't read your other thread but how old are your bulbs? Did you buy your light new a couple of months ago? Have you used any chemicals in your tank to cure anything? Did you use any cycling chemicals? What type of sand are you using? Do you have any metal in your plumbing? Is your tank near a window?

Also, I noticed your occupation. Do you ever put your hands in the tank before thoroughly cleaning them? Do you clean your hands with thinner?

I know there are a lot of questions but any of them could be a possibility. Most of the time it is something small that we don't even think of. People have lost entire systems because a room across the house was painted.

 

[firefish2020]

What i was asking was hey if there is a problem with the tank can i get another one,

We did not get to be where we are by ignoring people. If there is a genuine problem Im sure it can be fixed or replaced. You need to understand a few things about that as well though. Every week I hear someone describe nearly the same thing the same way that you did and it is inevitably algae. I have only been there for three years, Im sure Barry has heard it so many times it all must all just blend together at this point. The point is this, All Glass or the Distributor will take care of this IF it is a problem on their end and if they don't then WE will find a compromise.

But for now I advise a bit more patience in the matter. IF it is a legitimate stain in the silicone we will get options from those responsible. By those responsible I mean the ones who created the merchandise not the LFS or the employees who have NO control over matters or manufacturer quality.

A few more question about the stain:
1.Did you notice the stain after getting your tank home?
2.Or did it just appear several days later?
It seems it would be very visible in a new tank UNLESS like AG is trying to say your lights are bringing out a UV reaction in something in the silicone be it an unknown agent or algae, did you see it prior to putting water in?
Did you see it only after your lights were placed on the tank?
How long did you allow the concrete to cure before placing it in your system?
3. Have you treated your system at all with any kind of medication that you can think of?
4. Is there a chance that you may have placed a LR in your tank that was in a system that was treated heavily with copper or malachite green at some time prior to your purchase?

I will see what I can find out Monday for you on this matter but in the mean time realize people have been trying to help you. For future references if you have a problem call and ask to talk to me personally at the shop -I am not there all the time so you may be told to call back- I have found that most distributors will not listen to consumers unless their claim is backed by someone in the professional trade that they know (in this case Barry).

The way I see it we have these options to consider:

1. Could it be a resultant leaching effect of something in the concrete? DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY RESEARCH ON THE LEACHING OF CONCRETE AND TRACE ELEMENTS IN A SW SYSTEM?

2. Could it be a legitimate defect in the glass? HAS ANYONE EVER HAD OR WITNESSED ANY DEFECT IN THE SILICONE OF THEIR ALL GLASS TANK OR ANYONES?

3. Could it be algae? HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN AN ALGAE LIKE THIS BEFORE? (I have but usually in freshwater or tanks that have gone way out of natural balance. Also in tanks where chemicals are used to treat esp. malachite green)

4. Could it be caused by the addition of an unknown agent via a transfer into your system such as a rock that was in a tank that had undergone chemical treatment? HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THIS BEFORE? (I know it's possible in theory.)

I will post some info for you on this as soon as I get some answers.

Oh BTW:
You need to break your nori up for your tang at first as most tangs cower in corners when strips of nori are hung in a tank. If he still wont go for it soak the nori in garlic juice and try again until he starts hitting it every time. At that point you can begin using your algae clip but stay far away from the tank the first few times this will encourage the paranoid fish to stay out and eat and assure him it's not some kind of trap.

 

[lmcgrew79]

A few more question about the stain:

1.Did you notice the stain after getting your tank home?
A: No there was no stain when i got it home or even the first few days

2.Or did it just appear several days later?
A:It appeared about a week later, possibly the lighting since i didnt turn the lights on for the first week much at all.

It seems it would be very visible in a new tank UNLESS like AG is trying to say your lights are bringing out a UV reaction in something in the silicone be it an unknown agent or algae, did you see it prior to putting water in?
A: nope

Did you see it only after your lights were placed on the tank?
A: Yes

How long did you allow the concrete to cure before placing it in your system?
3 week normal time for concrete to reach curing for testing is 28 days. Cured it in water outside then washed with fresh water. Also tested ph of water while cureing that is why i added it sooner but the problem was still there before adding the concrete. I was under the belief it was algae as it may still be.
I did have base rock in the tank around the same time as the green appeared about 1 to 2 weeks in. The only thing on the rocks was a few tiny spots of coralline algae. I washed them off in fresh water and placed in tank.

3. Have you treated your system at all with any kind of medication that you can think of?
A: No medication what so ever only got fish about 3 weeks ago. There doing fine.

4. Is there a chance that you may have placed a LR in your tank that was in a system that was treated heavily with copper or malachite green at some time prior to your purchase?
A: I did add live rock close to the end of my cycling period and some water from the tank the live rock was in. This was still after the problem though. Ived never tested for copper in my water need to get a test kit. Although i have snails and some ricordia growing on the live rock. They are doing good. I wouldng think that copper is a problem but ill test it asap. Im going out of town next week so it could be a week or so before i can do so.

No way do i hold jo-mars at fault for this problem and it will be resolved in a matter of time with the vast knowledge of the people in this forum and at jo mars. Thanks for all the help i feel a hundred times better now then i did 2 days ago.

If one could actually see the tank i think they may have better knowledge. Ron if your in the area of nitro and would like to see it give me a call 549-8750 ill be more than happy to let you take a look. Sorry for the inconvienance and thinks for the help.

 

[coralreefer]

Could it be algae? HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN AN ALGAE LIKE THIS BEFORE

Sure have. My 20H is prone to it, mainly the front corners. It's the devil to clean off too. The green scrub pads do a fair job. You can also scrape it with a kent scraper or credit card. We usually razor blade it but that's not something I'd recommend

 

[Nathan4Wvu]

Been doing some research on the nature of silicone and found some stuff here
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/sitech/sitechbasics/default.asp
Silicone is use because quote^
"In fact, silicones represent a huge group of products that share useful common traits like stability at high temperatures and resistance to age, sunlight, moisture, temperature extremes, and exposure to chemicals."

And also i found in this PDF artical that if you look under section 10 on the artical under STABILITY AND REACTIVITY that it is stable under normal conditions and that decompisition only occurs through "oxides of carbon" such as CO2 which i don't you are using this in large amounts and it doesn't look like the silicone is decomposing



On a 3ed note silicone is mostly Isopropyl alcohol and 60%water there is simply nothing there to react . They make silicone in HUGE batches if there was a problem then thousand of people would have reported it and im sure DOW or whoever made it would have recalled it or caught it befor it left the plant.

Also it is growing to the same point all the way down the tank.

Conclusion silicone is fine. Its some form of alge or bacteria that has grown on or stained the silicone. It may or may not be removable.

 

[firefish2020]

Ok I took the laptop down to the shop today and let Barry have a look at this to see what he thinks. In his opinion and my own, we are looking at a form of algae. However if we are wrong and it turns out that there is a real problem here it will be taken care of one way or another.

Keep us posted on any growth, spreading or decline in this.
Nathan that was great detective work you did there great job. :thumbsup:

 

[grendl]

My understanding with curing home brewed rock (out of concrete) is that you have to let it cure to neutral in freshwater, then redo the process in saltwater, which requires MORE time to cure to neutral.

Dunno if that has anything to do with what you are experiencing or not, but the way I read your process was you :

1) let the concrete set

2) cure in FW for a few weeks

3) cure in SW for a few weeks

doing continual water changes in steps 2 & 3.

I have not studied the subject a great deal, but if you only dried & cured in SW it ay not have been enough?

 

[MattG]

Looks like algae to me. If it was a problem with your silicone it would be uniformly changing green instead of only the upper end where the light is. Also as mentioned silicone is made in huge batches and if there was a problem many others would be having identical problems.

 

[WVfishguy]

It's not that AGA or JoMars don't care, it's just that they don't/can't know everything.
I deal with idiot customers everyday who expect me to be omniscient. They grow irritated when I simply say, "I don't know." Now when something goes wrong, I place the blame on them - their attitude is bad, their kids are ugly, they don't pay me on time, they are smelly and stupid, etc.
(This embarrasses poor Matt a great deal - he now ducks for cover when I begin to berate my customers.)
I've been involved in the hobby more than 35 years and you'd think by now I would have seen it all. But about every four weeks or so something I've never seen pops up. Drives me nuts.
I'll be servicing tanks in Nitro Monday and Tuesday, April 17-18. PM me and we can make arrangements to meet. No charge. If I can figure it out I'll know what to do when it happens to a customer's tank.
If I can't figure out what's wrong, I'll blame you, so be prepared.

 

[Reef4Fun]

"idiot customers" "berate my customers"
and you said "their attitude is bad"?
hmmmmm

 

[H.crispa]

This whole thing has gotten way too complex for my liking so I have said nothing until now. To me, the green stuff on the silicone looks like algae. Whether it is on top of or underneath the silicone can be debated until we all die. That said, if this is a new tank and that is your biggest problem, I'd count you lucky by a long shot. Ever seen the tank of someone who treated ich with the old school remedy "nox-ich"? Their silicone is FOREVER stained blue. After a while though, it fades and you don't even notice it.

If the algae is under the silicone, then you have silicone in a new tank peeling away from the glass. This should in no way affect the seal as the seal actually occurs between the panes. This is why people have trouble sealing a tank that has began to leak. They glop on silicone all around the leak but the silicone between the panes still has a gap... so it still leaks.

Your tank, I assume, is not leaking. I would absolutely not worry about it AT ALL. Chances are it will go away on its own right about the time your first battle with hair algae, cyano, or diatoms breaks out. At that point, green silicone will not even be on your radar screen. Seriously, I personally think that it will go away on its own. Reef tanks all go through growing pains and as a reefer, you have to learn how to roll with the punches or you won't last long in this hobby.

I admit, it looks a bit wierd. However I don't think it is serious.

I would like to see it first hand though-- since you live in Nitro and all (me too.) There are some interesting growth patterns of tubeworms on the silicone I'd like to see. Get in touch if you want.