Planning a rather large upgrade. Advice/recommendations from the experts greatly appr

[GhostCon1]

Heads up this is a long post.

Hey every one, so I've had a fish tank of some sort all of my life. Around 20 years ago I discovered my love of the ocean and moved from freshwater to saltwater. Nothing can beat the diversity, color, or sheer amazement of a well thought out reef tank.

That said, I'm finally ready to get a tank the size I've dreamed about for years. I'm in the works to get an acrylic 84"x36"x24" display made. I know a few things I want for it, but my question revolves around proper flow and how to achieve that with the plumbing. This will be an sps dominant reef.

I'll be running an external coast-to-coast with Beananimal overflow design with 1.5" bulkheads.

That's pretty much all I have figured out at the moment. I looked at the glassreef page on his overflow, but I don't like how his returns run through the coast-to-coast to bring water back to the display. What would y'all recommend for dimensions on the external coast-to-coast for this size tank? Also, if I change the height or depth of the tank, would the external have to be increased in size as well? I'm talking going from 36" width to 48" or 24" depth to 30".

Also, my manufacturer told me the overflow will need to be braced. What is the best way of doing that without impeding the benefits of the smooth weir?

I'm thinking there are three ways to design my returns:
1) run 1" or 1.5" bulkheads in the back panel, 4 total. This would require my external overflow to be shortened to allow for the returns to be plumbed. Or is there a different way to design that?
2) have a manifold design that returns water via 45° and 90° elbows at the surface
3) just use sea swirls

I've thought about running a closed loop, but honestly haven't researched them yet. If someone could give advice, or pros vs cons on them that would be most helpful.

I know if I did some very thorough searching I could probably find all my answers, but this is tailored specifically to what I'm planning on having soon. It would be nice to have all of my information in one spot.

With that said, thanks for reading this long post and thanks tremendously for your help! I look forward to joining the Large Tank club soon.

 

[GhostCon1]

Maybe I posted this in the wrong area.

 

[shocker444]

I don't think your in the wrong area i no what you mean its nice to get answers here with people that use the equipment you want to use I'm new in this hobby so i don't have much to tell you but it sounds like a nice tank who is gunna build it

 

[GhostCon1]

I don't think your in the wrong area i no what you mean its nice to get answers here with people that use the equipment you want to use I'm new in this hobby so i don't have much to tell you but it sounds like a nice tank who is gunna build it

I'm hoping that it being the weekend has something to do with it. Everything is going to be built by Advanced Acrylics. They have the most consistent quality reviews from every acrylic manufacturer I read about.

 

[rgulrich]

I can't help with your overflow's design - sorry. I use the Deep Dimension's built in overflows with a Herbie to get the water down to the basement filter room.

As far as circulation goes, I would highly recommend you sit down with a piece of paper (or lots of them) and draw out 1) what your planned reef structure will start out like and then grow into and then 2) how you want water to move through those two different structures, as the flow will be impeded by SPS growth.

Do you want a lateral gyre? Alternating gyre? Random, chaotic flow? A mix? These decisions will determine if you want to plumb a closed loop, use an array of water movers, or a combination of both. An external controller can expand your options even further by providing a means to have the movers operate in ways their native controllers may not provide for. Draw out how you envision the water flowing around/through your planned reef and its growth, and that will point you in the right direction for pump/water mover planning.

Finally, and this one can be tough, try to plan for were detritus will settle - dead spots. Sometimes the only way to see this is have the system operate. Your options at this point are to provide additional water movers or plan on siphoning or stirring up those areas for filter system removal as part of routine maintenance.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ray

 

[CuzzA]

As far as the overflow and how it's constructed I would just work with the tank builders suggestion. I think any bracing on the overflow box would have negligible effects on surface skimming. (Posting an illustration would be helpful if you want more insight here)

As far as using returns for flow, sea swirls are going to be your best soultion, IMO. But they will still only be a supplement to wave makers. In terms of going behind the box or through it to run your plumbing, I suppose it depends on your setup. In other words, if this is going to be an in wall build, then I would just run them behind the box. If this is going to be against the wall you may want to consider going through the box as you'll already be off the wall 6-7" and return plumbing going behind the box could put you out as far 7-8".

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

We have a coast to coast on our 96x36x27 and it has a brace in the middle. The brace is a couple inches under the overflow weir inside the overflow box, no way for it to affect surface skimming in there. We have photos of it in our build thread if your interested.

We are using option #2 for our returns.

Have fun with your build!

 

[enzo0000]

First off, I'm definitely no expert, currently this is what I'm setting up and I'm close to testing the system.

My external overflow does not have an bracing on the top, but it is also 1/2" acrylic. Tank is a 180 (72x24x24), the overflow is 36" long centered.

hope this helps

 

[GhostCon1]

Ray, I plan on having vortecs in addition to any other device to provide proper flow. Ideally I would like to have the option for chaotic flow up top with, at times, a slower movement near the bottom 1/4 of the reef.

I haven't found all the rock I'll be using yet, so far I only have about 100lbs. Once I have the rock done then I can try aquascaping and seeing any trouble spots. Thanks for your advice.

I should mention I'll be running an Apex system.

Cuzza, I will get up an illustration tonight hoepfully. I love the seaswirls, but will also have a few vortechs running. I'm not 100% sure I follow with your return suggestion. through the box I understand, but what do you mean behind the box? Thanks for the advice.

A_CoupleofClowns, thanks! I'll be checking that out today.

enzo, that overflow looks really good. Have you noticed any issues so far with it not being aupported? Although on second glance, it looks like the black part is the front of the external overflow and that extends quite a bit past the overflow itself. Perhaps that provides support?

I hadn't considered using thicker acrylic to support the design. Thanks for the help.

Thanks everyone

 

[enzo0000]

Being that it is 1/2", its pretty solid. The person I spoke with that made the tank, makes them like this all time.

 

[Raoul5Duke]

I tried to keep my design simple, I just use 3 MP60s in tank for flow. The return line is split with one side going to a manifold (carbon, GFO, Frag tank) and the other side a simple over the top return. My biggest lesson learned was that I wish I put more outlets around my tank, I only have 3 banks with 4 outlets each so I ended up using some extension cords on some items even with the EB8 bars. The thing I am happiest with is my automated water change and storage system. I think this is a must for large tanks. I have a 360 gallon DT, 80 gallon sump, 40 gallon frag all plumbed together along with another 40 gallon QT tank.

 

[CuzzA]

What I mean by behind the box is if your external box is running coast to coast and you want to go from the back up and over you would have to account for that space in addition to the space required by the box. So you could end up pretty far off the wall which may look odd having the tank so far off the wall.

 

[d-man]

Why not run two returns through back panel and 2 over the top to front pane area?
In the future when I build my DIY plywood tank again, I'll do this.
I won't be able to have powerheads cuz of the plywood(don't think the magnets will grip) so I'll do this with 2 pumps and run a closed loop as well. And probably rig something up for jebaos

 

[jjk_reef00]

Is the overflow on the 84" part of the tank?
My tank is 96" x 30" x 30" and the overflow is on the 30" side.
Below the overflow I use 2 tunze powerheads and use PVC to run the returns to the far side of my tank. I am happy with the results, I plan on adding a closed loop pump later since the plumbing is already in place.

I also really want to get a 1.5" sea swirl at the far end of my tank

So if you don't mind the looks of the returns I would go that route. Position them to provide flow in areas where power heads would have trouble reaching. Then when your corals grow add power heads.

 

[GhostCon1]

Being that it is 1/2", its pretty solid. The person I spoke with that made the tank, makes them like this all time.

I found out from the builder that the acrylic would be 3/4". I misunderstood what he was talking about with the bracing. He was telling me there will be three spots that will have to be braced in order for the eurobracing to work.

I tried to keep my design simple, I just use 3 MP60s in tank for flow. The return line is split with one side going to a manifold (carbon, GFO, Frag tank) and the other side a simple over the top return. My biggest lesson learned was that I wish I put more outlets around my tank, I only have 3 banks with 4 outlets each so I ended up using some extension cords on some items even with the EB8 bars. The thing I am happiest with is my automated water change and storage system. I think this is a must for large tanks. I have a 360 gallon DT, 80 gallon sump, 40 gallon frag all plumbed together along with another 40 gallon QT tank.

So 12 outlets total wasn't enough in addition to the 8 from the EB8s? Yikes. How many would you go with now?Yes, automated WC stations is something I am looking into and trying to decide which I like and how to build for my needs. Manual WC suck lol.

What I mean by behind the box is if your external box is running coast to coast and you want to go from the back up and over you would have to account for that space in addition to the space required by the box. So you could end up pretty far off the wall which may look odd having the tank so far off the wall.

OH! :hammer: That makes perfect sense now. Yes this will be an in-wall build, so going behind the box will be just fine since the back acrylic panel will be black.

Why not run two returns through back panel and 2 over the top to front pane area?
In the future when I build my DIY plywood tank again, I'll do this.
I won't be able to have powerheads cuz of the plywood(don't think the magnets will grip) so I'll do this with 2 pumps and run a closed loop as well. And probably rig something up for jebaos

I've been thinking about having two return pumps, single PVC pipe split into two returns might work for me. If you get some heavy duty magnets (maybe the type Ecotech uses on their MP60s?) do you think that would work? How thick is your plywood?

Is the overflow on the 84" part of the tank?
My tank is 96" x 30" x 30" and the overflow is on the 30" side.
Below the overflow I use 2 tunze powerheads and use PVC to run the returns to the far side of my tank. I am happy with the results, I plan on adding a closed loop pump later since the plumbing is already in place.

I also really want to get a 1.5" sea swirl at the far end of my tank

So if you don't mind the looks of the returns I would go that route. Position them to provide flow in areas where power heads would have trouble reaching. Then when your corals grow add power heads.

Yes, the overflow will be on the back panel since it is blacked out. I'd ideally like it to run the length of the tank, but I think the builder can only go to 55". You're going to do a closed loop on an already set up tank, or are the pieces in place already but just plugged up at the moment? Or are you doing a closed loop from the top (I don't even know if that is possible).

Thanks everyone for the feed back! It's really helpful and gets some ideas into my head I hadn't thought of.

By the way, here is the pic of the glassreef overflow I mentioned earlier:

And here is the site in case anyone wants to see more or read more about how he built his Beananimal overflow.http://www.glassreef.com/basics_overflow.php

 

[jjk_reef00]

55" on an 84" tank should be more than enough. I bought my tank used and it had a closed loop on it. I plumbed the pieces in before I filled the tank so I could add one or more pumps and have a closed loop. With a long back wall you have a lot of options for adding in powerheads later if needed so you need to plan on the flow in the front portion of the tank. I would first determine how you want to aquascape and think about how the tank will be once the corals grow out. From there you can figure out how much return flow you want to direct to the front of the tank.

As others have said, in a large tank it is important to figure out the direction of water flow over the entire tank and where there are potential dead spots.

If you are worried about 55" being not enough you could have them design the overflow to handle a large amount of water. Then chose one or more controllable pumps to push enough water into the overflow. A lot of people don't like a lot of flow through the sump.

I am still a fan of over the top returns to the front of the tank. I thought I read someplace someone was doing a 1.5" sea swirl in each front corner of his tank. That would probably be too much flow for the sump but I would think along those lines.

 

[Raoul5Duke]

Ghost, I started with 2 dedicated 20 Amp circuits (four outlets each) on either side of an 8' tank, then I realized my 3x 500 watt heaters were going to eat up most of 1 circuit so I added another just for the heaters. I have 3 of the Apex EB 8s, 2 are completely used up and one has 4-5 outlets open. I didn't necessarily need more dedicated amps, just wish I would have added more outlet boxes in various places as I had to run some extension cords to a few things. You can see in my build thread if you look. If you have the cash the Genesis Reef water change system has been great to use, but a little time consuming to set up. Again, I had some long wire runs so it made it more difficult. Also, the time to ship large water containers for setting up a water change station takes a while so might want to look into those early and the shipping for those things are crazy. Good luck!

 

[enzo0000]

So 12 outlets total wasn't enough in addition to the 8 from the EB8s? Yikes. How many would you go with now?Yes, automated WC stations is something I am looking into and trying to decide which I like and how to build for my needs. Manual WC suck lol.



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This is what did just to make sure I had enough outlets. These are from any music store. You can label them and don't have to worry about unplugging/plugging constantly, now you can just push a button to turn on/off any piece of equipment.