Please critique my back wall design.

[SeanT]

First let me say that I am biting, HARD, on Jar*Head's INGENIUS design.
His design to keep the clutter out of the tank has finally inspired me, with my wifes permission of course )), to begin planning a cube tank.
It's what I have wanted for years, pretty much 30 minutes after setting up my 180 lol.

I am in the process of looking for a manufacturer for my dream tank.

A 54"w x 54"d x 24"h, 300 gallon cube with a black acrylic background.

Over the last week I have been planning, throwing away and redoing it on paper.

I think I am set...but I want to hear all critiques please.
ESPECIALLY ones that show flaws in my plans.

Better to find them now than after the tank arrives.

Thanks,
Sean

 

[SeanT]

Here is what I have come up with:

 

[Jar*Head]

Sean, i wouldn't put the wavebox in the center of the tank. Remember the aquascape may interfere the flow direction of your wavebox = no wave . I WOULD put the wavebox where your stream is at, one on each corner for better spread, even wave throughout the tank.

You can have your stream mount right above the wavebox without any interfere with the box and save some space in the middle for aquascape or whatever the heck you may want to put there.

 

[SeanT]

How would the Stream sit in the box with the wavevbox pump?

On top of each other?

 

[SeanT]

Thinking something like this?

 

[Jar*Head]

Sean, that exactly the was i came up with lastnight. Except i didn't get a chance to post . The stream will not sit inside the box, you can mount it on the brace via the wavysea tunze holder or you can use the tunze magnet. You can fit the magnet inside the wavebox and one to the outside. The stream does not need to be that low. Or you can use the wavysea unit itself with the stream and have 1 of your return go through it.

Do you really need 3 return holes? I think 1 on each overflow box look cleaner. What do you think?

 

[SeanT]

I like to overturn my tank at a decent rate...I run true barebottom so I need to get the detritus out quickly.
I am going to have the same flow going into this tank that I do into my 180...which scares me...wish I could figure a way to get more.

Personally, I am trying to find a way to keep all Streams out of the tank...I love them but they are kid of bulky.


Here is the latest version.

 

[Jar*Head]

Sean, if you can email me the latest picture not using photobucket that would be great. If you want to run Tunze stream with out it being seen i could help too . Same technique as the ext wavebox with a little modification.

If you run CL with OM 4 way. I would have them all line up in the front flowing toward the back and the tunze pushing toward the front.

 

[SeanT]

I am running a OM 4 way on a Closed Loop System.

That is what a few of the 1.5" Drains are for.

 

[Jar*Head]

Email you back Sean..

Hey, if all this turnout good, you owe me a lapdance :lol:

 

[Untamed12]

Two drains per overflow box suggests this is going to be a Herbie. (If not, it should be...)

Assuming that, you don't need two standpipes in each box. You only need the standpipe on the emergency drain. The other drain can simply be a bulkhead at the bottom of the box, or you can insert a strainer over intake so that things can't get sucked down.

I run mine without any strainer. Anything that wants to fall down there should go straight through into the sump anyway.

Finally, the drains pipes from Herbies can enter the sump below the sump water line, which completely eliminates splashing and air bubbles.

 

[SeanT]

What is a Herbie?

 

[Jar*Head]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12276781#post12276781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
What is a Herbie?

Yeah, what is a Herbie? Sound kinda scary....

 

[Untamed12]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12276781#post12276781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
What is a Herbie?

Oh....I was afraid you might say something like that. Now I have to type out a really long reply...

A "Herbie" is a method of running an overflow box so that the water exits the box in to the sump silently, without carrying any air bubbles along for the ride.

If you have an overflow box, the BEST way to design it is so that there are TWO drains per box (you've done that). One of these drains is the "primary" and it doesn't have any standpipe on it. The other drain becomes the "emergency". The emergency drain has a standpipe so that it will only come into use if the water level in the box nears the top. In normal operation, 100% of the water flow in this overflow box flows out the primary drain.

The key to the design is that you put a gate valve (not a ball valve) under the primary drain. By choking off the primary drain, you will reduce the flow until the head pressure required to get though that valve causes the water level in the overflow box to back up. At that point, the primary drain is pulling water absolutely silently out of the bottom of the overflow box, while water falls only a short distance into the overflow box at the top.

This, very sensitive, equilibrium would be cause for concern...except for the fact that you have the emergency overflow drain always there to carry away the water if the water level gets too high.

Because you have two overflow boxes...you do all that twice. You'll also have created exactly what I have. In my case, I use a Dart as a return pump and the 2 1.5" primary drains easily handle the entire flow from the Dart.

In this 2nd photo, you are looking closely at one of the primary drains. In this photo the drain is pulling nearly 1000gph, yet almost none of those air bubbles you see get pulled in. If my overflow box looked like this, I would turn the gave valve slightly more closed, which would cause the water level to rise and those bubbles would not get anywhere near the drain.

Of course, it is air getting in there that causes any noise. No air.....complete silence. The pipe runs down into the sump and exits below water line so there is no noise down there either.

 

[SeanT]

A very nice explanation, thanks.

I am not designing a "herbie".

My sump is through the wall in my garage, it can be as loud as it wants lol.
And it can be as agitated as it wants too, 6 foot sump...and it helps to oxygenate the water.

I like wide overflow boxes because I run a barebottom system and to maximize their successfulness you must get the detritus in suspension (high flow), out of the main tank (large overflow box) and out of your system (drains to large skimmer running wet).

Sean

 

[Jar*Head]

Sean Sean Sean, what is wrong with the "Herbie"? But sound like you know what you are talking about tho...

 

[SeanT]

Here is my latest...and hopefully LAST design.
Let me know what you think.

 

[Untamed12]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12277247#post12277247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
A very nice explanation, thanks.

I am not designing a "herbie".

My sump is through the wall in my garage, it can be as loud as it wants lol.
And it can be as agitated as it wants too, 6 foot sump...and it helps to oxygenate the water.

Sean

Okay....but...

1) At least by designing as you have, you can change you mind later. Bad design early makes putting a Herbie in later almost impossible. That's the most important part.

2) It isn't just noise at the sump you would be eliminating. It is noise in the overflow box itself. That is the noise you will hear in the living room. Fancy dursos are loud compared to a tuned Herbie.

3) If you are convinced you want the splashing in the sump to oxygenate the water, you can always simply end the drain pipe slightly above water line. In my system that drain line enters the sump below water line, then turns upward toward the surface creating a mound of surface disruption, without the splashing and associated salt creep everywhere.

But...hey...there's no "right" way to do things...only opinions. ;-)