pyramidellid snails - anyone have good advice?

[MadTownMax]

I've got em - :mad2:

they've taken out most of my astrea snails, but haven't seen them on my strombus, nassarus (sp?) or stomatella snails yet - and none on my clam

I've read up and heard they are species-specific.... said by shmeik - who I trust about 50% - as he said they would consume stomatella snails too - and have not seen any of these predators on anything else in my tank...


Anyone else had these and had them switch from snails to clams?



If I didn't want to take the risk - I'm thinking a small wrasse.... probably the pygmy geometric... as I don't want anything messing w/ my cleaner shrimp - anyone else have any ideas?

If they are species-specific - (there are 1000+ species of pyramidellids) I guess I really don't care, as there are plenty of other snail species to fill in the gaps - just wanted to make sure, as I definatley don't want to loose my clam!

 

[mbbuna]

you are right there are over 1000 types of pyrams.Barry N. has told me that they(at least some of them)will feed on clams and snails, some only on clams and some only on snails and some are just grazers. ive asked Dr. Ron and he says they are species specific and will not jump from clams to snails or vise-versa but when i asked for some kind of documentation on this i got no reply. ive had them on my clams and have gotten ride of them. the best way is for you to remove them your self. at least 3 times a week remove as many snails as you can and brush the shells with a toothbrush, do this for 4 weeks then check them every week for another 2 months. even if you dont see any brush the shells to remove any eggsacks or small unseen snails. i would also start inspecting your clam 3 times a week about 1 hour after lights out and brushing the shell as well.

some wrasses will eat pyrams but the problem with wrasses is they sleep at night and pyrams feed at night. also wrasses would rather eat a juicy pod as apposed to a hard shelled snail.

ive watched my 6-line swim past a pyram on the glass, stop, look at it and keep going.

 

[MadTownMax]

thanks Chris - I've been doing what I can to remove the parasites, but I barely see any astreas anymore -

I have given quite a few of the snails away to two friends to start-up tanks , and never saw any of the parasites on those. I only noticed it about a month ago when I was doing some sand-bed cleaning and sucked up an astrea that was covered on the underside of it's shell - then when I started looking for them time to time (when I actually see an astrea out in the open) I pick them off.

I've closely inspected my clam, and never see any - On a good note I've been really impressed with the clam's shell growth - moving it up 1/2-way in the tank has added about 1/4-1/2" of shell growth in a few months - it's incredible how much of a difference the lighting makes!

 

[MadTownMax]

A few pics - first the pyramidellids on the snail:

And the pyramidellids next to a grain of rice:

 

[bloopbloop]

Ooo... they are ugly! Good luck!

 

[wds21921]

You sure that rice just didn't have babies?

Hmm wonder if the evil hermit crabs would be interested in them? Just a passing thought.

 

[MadTownMax]

I don't know if hermits could get to them - they occupy the space between the snail and whatever it is attached to at the moment (the parasites are "Protected" by their host ) - so you don't see the pyrams until you pull them off.

There is a chance though - maybe I'll grab a few different types of hermits next time I'm at an LFS - seems like they'd have the right type of tools to crush these little guys.

I know some of the small wrasses get under edges, and could probably pick these things off- it would probably take some training though....

 

[kaptken]

hey nick,

remember when i gave you that collection of bugs to seed the tank, spagehtti worms, pods, micro stars and a couple types of micro snails. i think i might have given those to you. they have been in my sand beds for years . eat mostly slime and algea. i pick them out of the fuge sand bed when i tore down the DSB fuge.they always crawled up the glass at night and the calerpa to feed. are you sure they are really a problem? the ones on the snail pic seems like they are just on the shell, cleaning algea. i have 3 types of micro snails. the little white ones that are like a ceryth snail shape. a tiney dard brown one, about 1 1/2 swirls of a ice cream cone shape, and th 3/16 - 1/4 inch size swirled with tan stripes. those are definitely benign. ive never seen mine doing any harm. just tank and rock cleaning.

 

[MadTownMax]

I'm not sure if they're benign - would I be able to see holes in the snail's shell if they were attacking it? (I don't see any holes) and as I understand, they are like mosquitos on the reef - sucking blood through the shell of a host. So it may be very possible that they only eat algae.

That being said - I don't see mine in my sump, or on my glass or rocks - only on the base of these snails - like in the picture.

I definately do know that I have only a few of the larger snails seen in the picture left - so I'm trying for a manual type of removal for now. If they move on to new hosts - then some more methods will be employed, as I will not have my clam bite the dust withought a fight.

Will I need to take these snails under a microscope to see the holes left by pyrams?

 

[kaptken]

no idea. this is the first time i heard about pyramidal pest snails. i just thought, oh look, another life form. so i grow em. the more the merryer.. come to think of it, i havent seen mine out much lately. they coma and go. but my tanks have cleaned up some more. they may be fading away.

 

[mbbuna]

they don't bore or drill through the shell, they sit on the edge and feed on the fleshy parts with there proboscis(sp.)

 

[kaptken]

well, i hope i didn't pass on any bad kinds. but they seem to be just algea eaters in my tanks. more fond of the fuge, than the reef. maybe my blue mandarin eats them in the reef tank? but then again i dont have giant clams. but i do have lots of little clams and mussels that came in on the live rock 8 years ago. they are doing ok. if they were the bad kind of snails wouldn't they eat the little reef clams on my rock too?

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7279401#post7279401 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kaptken
but they seem to be just algea eaters in my tanks. more fond of the fuge, than the reef. maybe my blue mandarin eats them in the reef tank? but then again i dont have giant clams. but i do have lots of little clams and mussels that came in on the live rock 8 years ago. they are doing ok. if they were the bad kind of snails wouldn't they eat the little reef clams on my rock too?

Nick and Ken

i really wish i could answer this. Pyrams are a big time pest for clams, and ive spent some time researching them but haven't found anything conclusive either way.

i look at it like this. there are over 1000 species of them. im sure some must only feed on clams, some only on snails, some both and some are just grazers(or some where in between).none the less i wouldn't lose any sleep over it. they can be beaten in time and even in small numbers there only a nuisanse and not a real threat to clams or snails.

the best i can say for now is now that you know you have them, watch then closely and remove any you find

 

[MadTownMax]

Thanks Chris and Ken - I definatly appreciate the support.

Just when you think you have things "perfect" in this hobby(I finally got my 3-degree temperature swing down to 2-degrees using a new fan ), there is always some little thing that you find that sticks in the back of your head - and probably in this case is just me over-reacting :lol:

I'll be keeping a close eye on them. I don't think they've reached plague proportions - as when I find the snails now, they have less and less of the pyrams on them as time goes on - hopefully I'll have them out soon enough.

I'll definatly keep an eye out for them on the rocks/sand/or anywhere else eating algae, just in case they're really just harmless.

If I have any more of these "micro" critters I'll have to invest in a microscope for a better ID in the future

 

[bloopbloop]

Nick, PM sent. Did ya get it?

 

[MadTownMax]

yes - I'll put up a thread soon about the tank move - I've got to talk to the guys who live in the house now to see when they're out (hopefully giving me a memorial day weekend move) otherwise it will be a Tuesday the 31st move - which is no fun at all