quarantine vs treatment

[sdharrington]

Hi All-
When I get a new fish, lets say it's a tang. When the fish comes from an established tank and is visibly healthy, do I still need to quaraintine it? I have been treating any new fish with 2 weeks of copper in a hospital tank just to be safe before I put them into my "disease free" 220g tank at work, but I worry that I'm in danger of killing a fish that didn't need treatment to begin with, and of course some fish I can't treat with copper. I have a engineering goby right now that I can't treat and I don't know what to do. I have a 220g at work that only has fish that have been treated with copper before being added, and a 100g at home that had had ich before but nothing is clinical right now, and a 55g hospital treatment tank. My plan is to treat all new tangs with 2 weeks of copper, and the fish that can't handle copper 2 weeks of hyposalinity. Running the hospital tank is such a PIA, constant water changes, etc, and there is probably more waste than in either of my display tanks. I'm just not sure if it's worth it. If i'm just quarantining and not treating, these fish have already been "quarantined" if they come from someoneelse's healthy tank, so what is the point?

Thanks,
Shelly

 

[francis1123]

that is a judgement call for you to make. when i get a fish from someone, i look at their system. if all the fish are fat and happy and healthy, i will do a formaline dip and put them in the main system. if i don't get to see their tank, i will put the fish into my isolation tank (a smaller, fully running sytem with no meds) to watch for a couple weeks. another important question to ask is when was the last fish added to their system, and was it qt'd. if they just added new fish, i will qt in hospital tank and treat to be safe. my last system wipeout was from an established tank break down. i was unaware the person had just bought 3 fish that all mysteriously died. they died due to velvet, and i lost all but 3 fish.

 

[sdharrington]

getting a good history

getting a good history

That is a good point! I never thought about asking if there were any new fish added recently. I also lost a tank full of fish due to velvet which is why I'm perhaps overzealous now. So lets say there were no new fish - theoretically I think there could still be subclinical parasitism. I know my lavender tang in my tank at homr has had ich before. I never treated her, she just got better on her own, and she looks healthy now. However, if I sold her to someone, and she got stressed in the move, it would probably show up again. Of course I would tell someone if I were the seller, but I don't think everyone always thinks of this, particularly if it happened years before the sale. I just hate the thought of putting a healthy fish thru 2 stressful moves, toxic chemicals, and a semi dirty tank (I try my best but I know the treatment tank doesn't have ideal water quality).

 

[francis1123]

i am a very cautious QT'er now as well. i think you should ALWAYS assume ich is present. in any tank, any fish, any system. just because the fish don't show signs, chances are very high it is still there. i consider my system ich free, but i'd never bet money on it(i did actually, and lost $50 to a stupid spot on a hippo tang). the formaline dip i do is there to kill any ich present in the water from the previous owners tank. it will also eliminate many other potential pests, but it is not a sure fire guaruntee by any means.
it is truly a case by case situation on what you feel is necessary. it all comes down to your comfort level.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Not all diseases call for the same strategy. Some call for eradication some control.

How much do you trust the former owner? How long has it been in his tank? What has he been doing with it? If the tang has been in his tank for six or more months and there has been no treatment, i'd say there is likely no ick in his tank if full of other fish without showing ick.

 

[Ohiomom]

IMO fish can develop a resistance to at minimum ich..like in my tank there was a mini outbreak over 6 months ago..made a judgement call and did nothing as I have no plans to add any fish so I have let them be. No further issues..yet if I add a new fish, or give a fish away they would be susceptable..would quarentine even though I did that and the last fish I added, a gramma, had a mini outbreak after being added to the DT.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Two weeks is not enough for wild fish. I believe the lifecycle for ick is between 20 to 30 days depending on the temp.

I quarantine against ick for five to six weeks, during that time I do not simply "observe" but treat to eradicate ick decisively.

 

[Ohiomom]

oh forgot to mention my gramma was from someones healthy tank..still got it..oh well..

 

[wooden_reefer]

I believe the immunity against ick is more or less constant for the species under optimal conditions. Nutrition is important but will not further promote resistance against ick.

The geometry of the aqaurium is totally decisive. Ick WILL eventual kill most of your fish if it is present and there is no treatment.

If there is no ick show for many months in a well populated tank full of susceptable species of fish and there has been no treatment for that duration, then ick does not exist in that tank, IMO.

 

[francis1123]

from personal experience, of myself and many of my friends, that is an inaccurate statement. best example i have, a friend of mine with a tank that had nothing added to it for 4 years, one day he woke up to his powder blue infested in ich. it didn't come in, because he added nothing. it had to have been present, surviving on the fish in non plague proportions, the fish had a dip in it's immune system for some reason or another, and it got infested.
i myself have had a tank with nothing new added for over 6 months, and a hippo tang suddenly come down with ich. the 6 months prior, not a spot on any fish.

 

[Hogfish77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15205351#post15205351 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by francis1123
from personal experience, of myself and many of my friends, that is an inaccurate statement. best example i have, a friend of mine with a tank that had nothing added to it for 4 years, one day he woke up to his powder blue infested in ich. it didn't come in, because he added nothing. it had to have been present, surviving on the fish in non plague proportions, the fish had a dip in it's immune system for some reason or another, and it got infested.
i myself have had a tank with nothing new added for over 6 months, and a hippo tang suddenly come down with ich. the 6 months prior, not a spot on any fish.

Man, that was what happened to me too! Now I'm definitely NOT going to try anymore ich magnets such as hippos, PBT's and Achilles! So weird and so frustrating to see it happen! arrggh!:mad2:

 

[sdharrington]

ich

ich

You are correct - you can definitely not rule out ich just because it's not clinical. The real question is, is subclinical ich a big enough concern to risk treating apparently healthy fish with potentially toxic chemicals. Is it a big enough concern to the other fish in your tank, and to the individual fish being treated. Ich is not always deadly - I'm sure a lot of us have had tangs show ich then get better with just good husbandry and nutrition. I think it probably only kills fish when there are other issues going on at the same time, but really we don't know how subclinical ich affects our fish. Could it be causing health issues that we can't see? reducing life span? it's possible.

I think after reading all of this I have answered my own questions.

Going to quarantine and treat all new fish. Those who can't tolerate copper can at least get hyposalinity for a few weeks.

 

[PRDubois]

I would just put them in a QT tank for 2 weeks and keep an eye on them. There is no reason to treat unless there is an issue.

IMO - Treating new fish with no issues just because they are new is like taking Imodium AD just because you ate lunch in Mexico.

 

[lesleybird]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15207309#post15207309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PRDubois
I would just put them in a QT tank for 2 weeks and keep an eye on them. There is no reason to treat unless there is an issue.

IMO - Treating new fish with no issues just because they are new is like taking Imodium AD just because you ate lunch in Mexico.

Not the same as many fish have a spot here or there where you can't see it like in their gills and their immune system can keep it in check. I'ts that one or two ich spots that you did not see on the fish during the two weeks in a tank alone can spread in your main tank and show up on any stressed or non-immune fish then your whole tank has ich. Lesley

 

[e55MD]

There is always some rigorous debate about whether one can really achieve an "ich free" tank.

My 400 gallon DT was fallowed for a period of 8 weeks last year to fight ich only to have it return later on (without any new additions). My entire DT tank was subsequently treated with 5 weeks of Cupramine recently (with half my LR present). I have still seen an occasional spot of ich. The ich has persisted in spite of this and 160W of UV sterilization.

For me, the bottom line is that if your fish are healthy, eating well and your water conditions are pristine it is not life threatening, just more of a nuisance that is easily treatable if it gets out of hand.