qustion on ich treatment

[Captainfester]

hello all.

i have a 90 gallon tank and i have ich.... feels like AA in here.

so i am planning on catching the fish and moving them to a 55 gallon tank for hypo treatment. seems to me from all the reading here this is the best treatment option.

my question is i cant find good details on what i need for setting up the tank.

heres my thought. i was going to set up the 55 with salt water that matches the sg of the DT. no sand. no rock. maybe throw 3 or 4 different pieces of pvc in there in order to give some hiding spots. a heater of course and a power head.

then just start tossing fish in.....?

am i missing something?

 

[mal7887]

Here is another ICH form from yesterday:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2055068

lagatbezan has a link on there that has alot of great info on ICH.

 

[Captainfester]

Here is another ICH form from yesterday:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2055068

lagatbezan has a link on there that has alot of great info on ICH.

yes i read that, doesnt answer my question about setting up the hospital tank though

 

[MrTuskfish]

You can use water from your DT and do a WC at the same time. Tank will need to be cycled, a HOB filter works well, if you have some sort of filter floss/pad in your DT system to seed it. if not, you'll have to do WCs to keep up with ammonia. You'll need a heater, refractometer, PVC makes good hiding spots, any light that lets you monitor the fish is fine. Read the stickys on this site for info on lowering/raising SG. Hypo is a popular method; but, just my opinion, I prefer copper (Cupramine) with a SeaChem test kit. Be sure to treat all fish, not just the ones showing spots, and leave your DT fishless at least 8 weeks. Then, QT all new livestock and never go through this 12 step hassle again.

Edit: I see you have an aqua Clear filter. You could start the bio-filter using the AC sponge and let the ceramic noodles keep your bio-filter going in the DT until your new sponge is active. These sponges do as much as the noodles to harbor aerobic bacteria for the bio-filter.

 

[sandwi54]

^^ Echo what MrTuskfish said.

I also prefer cupramine over hyposalinity as it is easier on the aquarist and relatively safe.

Please see my post on copper treatment in another thread whose OP has ich as well.

Please read the sticky on proper treatments for ich.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1992196

Please do not use Super Ich Cure. It won't work completely. Please either use hyposalinity or copper as those two have 100% guarantee to eradicate ich. I recommend cupramine (go to other LFS if you can't find it, someone must carry it) over hyposalinity. I have successfully tried both methods, but one major problem with hypo is dealing with the pH shift. You must monitor the pH at least 3-4 times a day and add baked sodium bicarbonate as necessary. For people who are working this may be a tough thing to do.

If you go with cupramine, I do not recommend the full 0.5ppm as instructed on the bottle. I would instead only use 0.35-0.4ppm as tangs are sensitive to copper due to their microfauna in the stomachs. The therapeutical range for ich is 0.25-0.35ppm so 0.35-0.4ppm works just fine. Bring up the copper level over a course of 3-4 days, not all at once. Treat all the fish for 3 weeks (the clock starts counting at the target dosage). During the treatment period you must watch the ammonia and nitrite levels as copper retards the biological filter initially, and the bacteria may take a few days to weeks to catch up. If the ammonia and nitrite go up you will have to do water changes as necessary. If you need to do large water change (say 50% for example), you must try to match temp/salinity/pH and add the replacement water slowly, bit-by-bit, kindda like when you acclimate a fish.

The higher temperature has the effect of speeding up the ich life cycle, but does not kill it. I would lower it back down to 78-80 so as not to stress the fish more than necessary. A full 3-week cupramine treatment is almost always successful. At the end of the treatment, do a large water change and add either activated carbon or cuprisorb to remove the copper. Leave the fish in the QT tank to observe until the DT's 9-week fallow period is up. If there is no sign of ich, then you may put fish back into the DT.

I would also recommend that you dose PraziPro as well for possible fluke infection. Do this after the ich treatment.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Good point on level of Cupramine. IMO, copper level depends on the fish. I seldom get to .5 and sometimes stay as low as .25. I dose lower dosage levels for longer periods. .50 is the level (According to SeaChem, they have great tech support) at which SeaChem expects a 100% kill rate, 100% of the time. Of course, "100%" just doesn't always happen, but this is as close a you'll get. Also, SeaChem is now saying Cupramine at .20 is the new low end of the therapeutic spectrum. I've also gone to the 9 week fallow period---- a lot to expect from a new hobbyist waiting to stock his new tank, but certainly worth it.
BTW, I love your comment that copper is easier on the Aquarist; up until now, I think I'm the only one I've ever heard say that. My time and stress (the most over-used word in the hobby, IMO) level are as important to me as they are to the fish. An active QT treatment tank with Cupramine and an established bio-filter (easy to do) makes a QT routine quite easy. The easier something is, the more folks will do it; resulting in more fish living and thriving. I respect the views of folks who don't like copper, but its worked wonderfully for me for many years.

 

[sandwi54]

Good point on level of Cupramine. IMO, copper level depends on the fish. I seldom get to .5 and sometimes stay as low as .25. I dose lower dosage levels for longer periods. .50 is the level (According to SeaChem, they have great tech support) at which SeaChem expects a 100% kill rate, 100% of the time. Of course, "100%" just doesn't always happen, but this is as close a you'll get. Also, SeaChem is now saying Cupramine at .20 is the new low end of the therapeutic spectrum. I've also gone to the 9 week fallow period---- a lot to expect from a new hobbyist waiting to stock his new tank, but certainly worth it.
BTW, I love your comment that copper is easier on the Aquarist; up until now, I think I'm the only one I've ever heard say that. My time and stress (the most over-used word in the hobby, IMO) level are as important to me as they are to the fish. An active QT treatment tank with Cupramine and an established bio-filter (easy to do) makes a QT routine quite easy. The easier something is, the more folks will do it; resulting in more fish living and thriving. I respect the views of folks who don't like copper, but its worked wonderfully for me for many years.

Appreciate your comment! I think we are both on the same page. The easier something is, the more people will do it with success. I personally don't think quarantining is hard; it is hard only if the strict protocols are not followed. I can see how people who are new to fishkeeping can be impatient and do not quarantine or do not follow quarantine procedures 100%, but disasters happen almost all the time. The person then gets frustrated and quits the hobby, yielding the 1.5 year of avg lifespan of this hobby.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Appreciate your comment! I think we are both on the same page. The easier something is, the more people will do it with success. I personally don't think quarantining is hard; it is hard only if the strict protocols are not followed. I can see how people who are new to fishkeeping can be impatient and do not quarantine or do not follow quarantine procedures 100%, but disasters happen almost all the time. The person then gets frustrated and quits the hobby, yielding the 1.5 year of avg lifespan of this hobby.

But lots of cheap equipment on Craig's list.! L.A. estimates only 5% of hobbyists use a QT, hard to imagine.

 

[sandwi54]

But lots of cheap equipment on Craig's list.! L.A. estimates only 5% of hobbyists use a QT, hard to imagine.

yeah seriously! that's why we see so many disease posts on this forum.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Also note that Cupramine will throw your ammonia test off, so you will have difficulty monitoring ammonia. Here is what Seachem has to say in their Cupramine faqs:

"Ammonia test kits can not distinguish ammonia from the amine based complex present in Cupramine™ and will therefore give a false high reading for ammonia while using Cupramine™. Our Ammonia Alert™ and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia™ test kit do not suffer from this problem as they utilize a gas exchange technology that can distinguish ammonia from amines."

I keep one of the ammonia alert badges in my QT. Do massive water changes if it moves off of yellow at all!

I assume the nitrate tests continue to function properly.

On your test kits, make sure to rinse thoroughly so as not to contaminate your DT with copper from your QT.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Also note that Cupramine will throw your ammonia test off, so you will have difficulty monitoring ammonia. Here is what Seachem has to say in their Cupramine faqs:

"Ammonia test kits can not distinguish ammonia from the amine based complex present in Cupramineâ„¢ and will therefore give a false high reading for ammonia while using Cupramineâ„¢. Our Ammonia Alertâ„¢ and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammoniaâ„¢ test kit do not suffer from this problem as they utilize a gas exchange technology that can distinguish ammonia from amines."

I keep one of the ammonia alert badges in my QT. Do massive water changes if it moves off of yellow at all!

I assume the nitrate tests continue to function properly.

On your test kits, make sure to rinse thoroughly so as not to contaminate your DT with copper from your QT.

Good reminder. The nitrate isn't really an issue, IMO. Nitrate, at any level ever seen in a QT, shouldn't bother fish.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Sorry, I meant to say nitrite. Thanks for catching it. I guess by the time nitrites show up, the ammonia would have been a major problem so no need to test for nitrite.