Reposted for FMAS: Thoughts for a reefer on the edge

[nstiesi]

Guys, I posted this in global, but wanted the local take since I spend much more time here than in global. Its a long post, but thanks to anyone that keeps with it:

Hello RC,

I don't post in the global forum much, but am fairly active in regional. I have been reefing since 2008. I went from 20L, to 29g, t0 75g in that time, mixed reef, moved the

tank from place to place a few times. the 75g has been settled as it sits since October 2010. Ive always been pretty successful, never had too much trouble keeping the

simple stuff. Lately things have taken a turn for the worse. I'd like to characterize my system, its strengths, and its faults below. If anyone has some insights into my

troubles, it would be greatly appreciated, as more and more I feel a rage quit coming on.

The system:
75g peninsula.
beananimal overflow.
30g sump.
Octopus dwn-110 recirc skimmer.
10ish gallon fuge with LR and chaeto fed from return.
Lights: 2x 175w halide, currently ushio 14k lamps. Also, 2x 54w T5HO supplements, currently ATI Blue+. Lamps need replacement, about 10 months old.
Flow: 2x Koralia, one 1400, one 1050, no wavemaker. Return, mag 7.
Carbon run passively in filter sock in sump. replaced periodically.
Water made personally from 0 TDS RO/DI unit, with seachem reef salt.

Parameters:
pH: usually on the low side of normal 7.8 to 8. Measured using both cheap Hanna PH with new electrode, and API test solution
Alk: 7-11. Dosed when low with BRS recipe 1 two part solution. seemed to need about 1 dKH every day or two to maintain 11. Dosed manually, so usually less frequently than

that.
Ca: 400-440. Dosed when below 400 with BRS recipe 1 two part, also manually. Needs it maybe once a week, stays pretty stable.
Nitrate: Always tests zero
Phosphate: dont have test kit.
I dose 40mL of 5% acetic acid vinegar solution for carbon source daily
Water changes performed once every 2 weeks..

Inhabitants:
Mixed reef, zoas, LPS (euphyllia mostly, few acans), light sps (monticap, monti digi, stylo, birdsnest), 3 RBTA (started with one, split twice)
Yellow tang recently died after 1 year + of seemingly perfect health, cause of death unknown.
1 Foxface rabbitfish
1 Saddle clown
1 Percula clown
1 Lubbocks Fairy wrasse
All fish eat well.
I feed mostly roggers frozen reef blend, along with marine pellets, dulse flake, dried cyclopeeze, and nori. (not all of that every day)
Feeding usually once a day, sometimes every other.

The bright spots:
RBTA: as mentioned, split twice already, havent moved in months. Great extension, closed mouth, look happy, host the saddle clown
Birdsnest: Huge, best grower, great polyps, good color
Leng sy cap: huge, decent growth speed, good color
The clowns are LONG time inhabitants, with the perc being around since this was a 29g. Saddle clown has tripled in size in 3 years.
Monti-digis: 2 out of 3 show good growth, decent color.

The problems:
Bubble algae - I just cleaned as much as I could this week. Removed a TON. About an inch or more thick on the bottom of a 5g bucket to give an idea of volume.
Xenia - Devil pest weed, biggest mistake i have made. Tufts show up all over the tank, and any/every little crevice. My efforts of manual removal (with hemostats), and

target killing (tried vinegar, alk solution, lemon juice, etc), have done nothing.
GSP - also invasive, overgrowing some zoas and acan frags.
Hair algae - havent seen a lick of it in a year....then the yellow tang died. Now its coming back.
Zoas - All colonies are shrinking, melting, receding, and in some cases just flat detaching from their achorage.
LPS - seemingly healthy, just plain not growing. Acans, frogspawn, hammer, torch, duncan....all stagnant.
SPS - mostly ok, but I tried a staghorn a few months ago. Grew like a beast for a few months, color was outstanding, then it started bleaching, dying. Cut out the healthy

stalk, remounted it. Its got good tissue now, but poor color, very little growth.

Final thoughts:
I USED to run GFO in a BRS reactor. It clogged the reactor overnight, sat stagnant. Figured it did more harm than good.
Im SURE my water quality must be poor for all the algae to grow, but test never show it, vinegar made 100% NO difference after 2 months. GFO never helped either. I dipped

all zoas in Revive this week.....hasnt seemed to help.

I KNOW this was a novel, and thank anyone who read all the way through it. If anyone can shed any light on my issues, it would be WONDERFUL. I am currently debating:
A.) fluke tabbing the xenia and GSP, and dealing with whatever fallout comes B.) Cooking all LR in a dark container for a few months and starting over
C.) Getting all new rock and starting over
D.) Leaving the hobby all together.

Of course, fixing the problem without all these drastic measures would be best.

Nick

 

[Tecdiverfl]

Emerald Crabs for Bubble Algae

If your BRS reactor is clumbing in a day not enough flow throught it to keep GFO Tumbling

 

[blackthunda77]

We all go through it. I just recently did. I have a build thread of the new tank going on right now. Sometimes the feeling will just go away, sometimes you need to do something drastic. I cant say i tore my tank apart because of that but now that i did and started fresh i feel re energized and am very happy with the decision. I too was having bouts with bubble algae,and other pests. Sometimes your better off starting off on a clean slate rather than fighting a losing battle. No xenia or GSP in my tank this time, lol. And all my sps no go through an aggressive dip before they go in my tank. If i lost part of the frag ohh well, better for that smaller frag to regenerate a little slower than for me to introduce red bugs, nudis or FW in my tank.

 

[nstiesi]

The most concerning part to me is the zoa death. Its drastic. I found pictures from june 2011, and compared to now it is STARTLING. Im gonna take some current shot for comparison tonight.

Im coming to terms with rebooting....but what is the point if I apply the same method, and get the same result (minus the xenia and gsp of course). Again, the zoa death and lack of LPS growth are my biggest issues.

 

[blackthunda77]

i agree with techdiver about the bubble algae and emerald crabs. they worked for me. However, it seems like you have more than bubble algae going on. I also believe that if you want to rectify the problems, it definitely can be done. However, sometimes its mentally easier to start fresh. You wont have the thought like "did i get every piece of xenia or gsp out? did i miss any flatworm, nudi, red bugs?" atleast you have the peace of mind that starting fresh you know you didnt "miss" anything. In any event, like i said before, we all go through it, multiple times in the lifetime of our hobby. Try to come to some of the FMAS meetings if you don't already. I find that i get MOTIVATED after those meetings when talking to other hobbiests and getting new information.

 

[marke]

You mentioned you know water quality must be bad. What do you think is bad about it? Usually that means high nutrient levels aka high pollution levels. That is nitrates and phosphate. You say nitrates are zero which is good. That may be the result of carbon dosing which you think maybe has not helped but if nitrates are truly zero (test kit dependant) dosing has helped. Carbon will not remove phosphates. I think we are getting to the problem. What did you say they were at? Buy a test kit or take water to the lfs for analysis or even bring it to me to test. Look for other ways to reduce pollution. Gfo if not in a reactor put it in a bag in sump. It does reduce phosphate Feed less. Check your skimmer efficiency Get garbage eaters in your system. Do you have chaeto. If you determine it's pollution and resolve that. Then how to remove the bubble and Xenia is another issue. My fingers got a good workout. Maybe they will do it again latter. Good luck

 

[nstiesi]

I need to get a phosphate test. Marke, i do run chaeto in the sump, and it grows, along with bubble algae in the sump as well. I clean that out regularly as well. Skimmer, pulls well, though it is set a little dry right now. But every few days I get a cup of nasty smelling dark brown goo. I do have a CUC, one or two emeralds, harlequin shrimp, nerite, astrea, cerith, nassarius snails.

 

[ek9vboi]

Not a bad idea to start fresh and keep frags of what you like from your tank. Ask a LFS to see if they are willing to take trades/credit for your current rock with the Xenia/GSP. It doesn't hurt to try.

Or try a few larger water changes to resolve the high nutrient problems that are aiding in the algae growth. Bulbs are also a problem as well as you've stated.

I would switch out anything covered in Xenia/GSP (frag off colonies you would like to keep), 25% weekly water changes, & change the bulbs. I'm not a big fan of GFO because it seems like your system would be dependent on it as a form of fighting algaes for nutrients. I suppose once the algae is gone, you can wean your system off but that might still not resolve your high nutrient problem.

Good luck with whatever your decision is, but you'll always have an itch for it if you leave it. lol, trust me, I know.

 

[SirReefer]

I'm fairly new to this hobby but have gone thru similar problems with many of my zoas,they just melting away, seems like I had zoa pox so I would say check for that and also for the mean time I can also suggest chemi pure bag for now see if any of that stuff can help, maybe water changes also. 10-15% weekly if possible. as for the GsP and Xenia just try putting an aggressive coral next to it it'll probably stop it from spreading.. I read that someone did that to control its spread.. I have mine away all the rock so it can't spread. Starting over is another budget so just try to find the problem because it can always happen again at some point.. GL

Many of my zoas and other corals were closed before but I'm sure it was phosphates so I bought new chemi pure and phosphate media for aesh bag which helped.

 

[AquamanE]

IMHO:

As MArkE said its likely a nutrient issue.

Get:
Phosphate tested with a meter.
A few more emerald crabs.
At least 30% water changes per month with 0 TDS Ro/DI water as maintenance. MAybe more while you work out the issues.

That with a little muscle and manual removal of algae should get you back on track.

Once that is in check: You need to review your ALK/CA/MG routine. What you are doing might be ok with moderate carbonate demand but will not work for long once demand increases and will cause SPS/LPS issues..

 

[nstiesi]

Big thanks to DrThompson for testing my phosphates for me last night! Based on my meeting with him, I will probably be investing an a Hanna Checker very shortly. They came in at .13, which isnt as bad as I was expecting. (DrThompson's was .08, and his tank is GORGEOUS). Still, the proof is in the algae. So, I have outlined a plan of attack for this thing, to try and get a hold of it, assuming still that its a nutrient problem. (I suppose there is still the possibility that the zoas are falling victim to pest or pathogen, something that the dip in Revive didn't/couldn't erradicate):

1) Water changes: I have been religious up until now, and shall continue to be, 20% every other week at minimum.
2) Vacuum sand: I have a SSB and after much reading, its worth the risk
3) Vacuum sump: This is always part of my routine maintenance anyway
4) Dose iron direct to fuge for chaeto growth: I did this in the past and had alot of success. Only stopped because I was dosing for an alveopora I bought on impulse w/o prior research. At the time the chaeto explosion was an unintended effect, but as I remember, I didnt have nuisance algae back then.
5) Filter socks: Have 4 in the mail to rotate. Look to clean them once a week or more.
6) Skim wetter
7) Leaving my BRS reactor on the shelf and ordered a Phosban 150 yesterday. Read that it shouldn't clog like the BRS does, and tumbles with less pump pressure required. Going to run GFO full time for phosphate removal
8) Continue to manually remove bubbles.
9) Still gonna try Aiptasia X on the xenia, though my emergency fluke tabs arrived yesterday. Have not ruled that out.
10) Also still interested in working on the rock, thinning it out, making it more open for flow and less detritus accumulation. Considering replacing it all, and building a pegged structure of awesomeness. That would have to coincide with a bit of a "starting over", which I am still undecided on.

Stay tuned.

 

[ek9vboi]

Dave is a great guy, he helped me test for po4 and I was convinced to order my Hanna checker because of him as well.

I would recommend changing socks every 2-3 days. The mesh ones for me get clogged quickly.

As for chaeto growth, I've never dosed by pruned yesterday and was surprised that my stuff grew so much. I don't remember having that much but it grows well. I have chaeto from three different tank and from what it looks like they all grew very quick. You should be fine once you start your usual water changes. I try to dose the minimum, which is usually calcium and alkalinity. Less goes into the tank besides water changes, they better for a long term support system IMO.

 

[ek9vboi]

Oh yeah, what type of lighting are you running over your chaeto?

 

[N8thanExpl0sion]

I am no expert.. this is just my 2 cents..

I had a similar issue with my tank. It was a hidden bacterial infection, the fish showed no symptoms my levels were not crazy (not exactly zero without Mechanical Filtration) but I was seeing bubble algae and Zoas where detaching.

One day on of my power heads failed and so the tank went with reduced flow for 2 days. By the end of the second day red slime started to show up. I didn’t have the cash to buy a new power head right then so it had to wait 2 more days. By then I had red slime all over the place. I should have taken pictures, sry. As fast as I sucked it out with a turkey baster the next day it was back with force.

Bought some “ChemClean” with a new power head
Followed the instructions
Now (for me) I did lose some snails and my copper banded butterfly (who was showing no signs of health issues) but it totally eliminated the bubble algae and the red slime. It is suspected that I may have used too much powder in my tank as I guestimated how much water my rock displaced.
If I had to do it again I may have used 1 scoop or 1/2 scoop less but I would still go this route as I could have lost all coral.
When all was said and done, my coral did not come out for a day of so and so I dipped everything that was removable in Coral RX. All coral survived thank God and my fish are doing well.

 

[nstiesi]

Today I took the first step to trying to fix my tank. My brother came over and a tore the mother apart. All the rock came out, was drilled, pegged with fiberglass rod, and made into two branching towers. Why is this important (seemingly) to "fixing" my tank?

My. Sand. Is. NASTY. And to be honest, a VERY large % of the sand bed area was covered in rock, probably 70% or more. With only the two towers, that % is no more like 20.

I used 30 gallons of freshly mixed saltwater just in keeping rock wet in bins while drilling and pegging, as well as rinsing after drilling and scrubbing off bubble algae. The aquascape looks AMAZING, and once the water clears up ill post some pics, but hopefully the open flow concept and exposed sand bed will both help discourage the settling of detritus, and allow it to be vacuumed up more easily.

A phosban reactor and filter socks come next week, and ill be doing a sizeable water change tomorrow, since I really didnt get to change out but a few gallons in todays mess. After that, the sump gets a good vacuuming.

 

[blackthunda77]

Nice, interested to see the aqua scape!

 

[Jackwkahn]

Removing the sand in my tank was sort of liberating for me, you might want to consider it

 

[nstiesi]

Ugh, first loss of this whole mess, other than broken coral, my foxface died overnight. Last night I placed all my coral with a stick and a half of JB Weld Water Weld (which I have never used before, but had read that it SHOULD be safe), vacuumed about a quarter of the sand bed, vacuumed the sump, then did about a 20g water change.

All the other fish seem perfectly fine, but maybe the water weld was specifically toxic to rabbitfish? Or some toxins were released from the vacuuming? Not sure why the other fish, coral, shrimp, and nems wouldn't be affected though.

Very bummed this morning.

 

[Principeces]

I think it could be possible that some of that moving around of the sand and the rocks in and out of water during the drilling could have caused a very small cycle releasing some ammonia into the tank. I too have used that chemiclean product and I was very happy with it, got rid of the red slime and the bubble algae i had in the beginning. Good luck and keep it up

 

[nstiesi]

I did test for ammonia right after the move, showed none. He seemed fine for the first 24 hrs. It wasnt until I started working on it again the next day. Whatever it was, it was too much too fast I guess.