Researching phase for my first reef tank.

[Chasedenver]

Hello! My name is Kenya, and I've joined because my go to forum for freshwater (fish lore) definitely has a slower salty section. When I am ready to start up the tank I will likely open a new thread to help with stocking, but for now I'm looking for input, general advice, etc.
Let my start by telling y'all a little bit about myself and my experience. I started working at PetSmart at 19 years old and started getting into aquariums. The training was not in depth and I took it upon myself to learn the BASICS, like how to cycle a tank. Though I did over stock and under filter, not knowing to look at GPH or doing more research on each fish. I also failed with live plants because the box on the Floramax bulb promised good plant growth. I kept many bettas, had mollies and such, and had an axolotl tank. Though I did weekly water changes I didn't realize the axie tank was also under filtered and that strip tests weren't very accurate, and struggled with keeping it clean. When I moved here (Las Vegas, NV) from Florida, I was relieved to sell off my tanks and not have to fight with ugly, not too clean tanks.
Years later, I ended up becoming the department manager at Petco who also covers the aquarium section. With my inability to grow plants easily in the desert, I decided to start up a modest tank with aquarium plants because I missed foliage. I started with a 29, researched like mad, and became 100% addicted. I have four planted tanks now.
3.7 gallon nano with my mom's betta.
5.5 gallon nano with micro crabs, horned nerites, and dwarf neo shrimp in blue pearl.
10 gallon nano with red cherry neos, a zebra nerite, and my koi plakat betta.
And my 85 gallon community. Home to Amano shrimp, nerite and rabbit snails, bristlenose plecos, angelfish, C. Sajica cichlids, Rainbow fish, thicklipped gourami, a big school of Harlequin Rasbora, etc. This tank is my absolute joy to play with. It's predrilled and has a wet dry where I've got a UV filter and my heater, heater is plugged into a controller, and sump is fed with glutaraldehyde, comprehensive ferts, and trace minerals with the help of a Jebao dosing pump. I have two LED fixtures on timers. I LOVE this tank.

And yet, now I need a new challenge. Enter, obsessive research of a beginner reef tank. I've settled on a 40 breeder as I'm less concerned with fish and more wanting to focus on a shorter tank to better light the corals. I like softies and SPS which is good because they're also easier and more forgiving to start with.

There are a few little things that I've picked up if I found a great price (thanks Amazon Prime day!)

First thing is a light fixture. Need to know if I will need to heavily supplement or if having it lower will mostly be sufficient. I'm familiar with lighting to a degree but it's a whole different ballgame on the salty side.
Galaxyhydro Led 55x3w Dimmable 165w Full Spectrum LED Aquarium Light for Reef Coral & Fish ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INM0J1M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_JqwIxbY08R81J )
Decent reviews, and between the sale and a gift card I had, it was free. I also have a new Fluval fixture that was given to me but it's hiding in the garage somewhere, so once I dig it out I'll share the model and size.

I've also purchased the saltwater and reef master kits and a bottle of BioSpira just to help when I am cycling or add my first livestock.

Which leads to my next question, I'm sure the concept of cycling is pretty much the same but I need to know the parameters if I'm dosing with straight ammonia, if the guidelines differ.
I also need advice about starting with dry rock versus live. The big advantage of dry rock is the price point and pest avoidance, though it seems like I'll get most of the pests as hitchhiker's eventually. To give an idea, locally, Fiji rock that is live would run me about $5/lb, so at least $200 total.
I was thinking of this Key Largo rock, which appeals to the environmentally conscious part, the native Floridian part, and the wallet conscious parts of me all at once.
http://marcorocks.shopgate.com/item/3739
50 lbs for $109 before tax or any promos.

Also thinking Spectrapure refurbished 90 GPD for RODI instead of buying water at my LFS and lugging it back and forth. I'm a single mom who doesn't have a ton of free time. Or muscles. Haha.
http://spectrapure.com/Refurbished-90-GPD-RODI-System
Thoughts? What spare filters and membranes and such should I buy? Any upgrades I should invest in right away or can I run it as is initially? I will probably get this next so I can figure it out before I depend on it. We have very hard water in Vegas, so I look forward to using RODI water for top off between PWCs.
I'll also be getting a TDS meter.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01E...2_2?colid=1GYHBIQ81OHBJ&coliid=I14YW598DOC2WE

And refractometer.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005..._14?colid=1GYHBIQ81OHBJ&coliid=I2B55B4856XOPK

I was also thinking of using the Reef Crystal salt, it just seems a little more foolproof for a newbie. Probably will also have Purigen and PhosGaurd, as I already love Seachem products and use prime exclusively for dechlor.

I need good quality, but reasonably priced options for a skimmer, refugium equipment, and circulation fans or power heads. Was going to do a very thin layer of live sand just in the areas the rock and corals don't touch.
And that's plenty more than any of you wanted to read to begin with, thanks so much for making it this far, haha.
I will do some more reading now, but personal experience is really important to me when I'm selecting equipment.

If anyone can give me advice or input on even one of these pieces of equipment or even just tips and tricks they wish they had known when they started, it would be vastly appreciated. I want to do this the right way!

-Kenya

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[linkedsilas]

Read up on chemistry.
I underestimated how often I would have to go to the lfs to get Ro/di
I thought I could go get my water out of the purifying machines at the store but didn't take into consideration what plumbing they may use or how often its serviced. I ended up buying my own system.

 

[gone fishin]

Welcome to the forum. I don't know if you made a typo but SPS coral are usually the more demanding coral to keep.

As far as equipment you listed I am not familiar with those LED's, The RO/DI from spectra pur is a good choice. I use reef crystals myself for years. Skimmers and powerheads IMO are a get what you pay for type of thing.

There is a sticky at the top of the forum called "setting up", look for the big red arrow, it is full of good info. So of it will know already.

The one piece of advice that I can give at this point is to figure out what you want to keep then buy the equipment for it. Since you mentioned SPS Coral these will require more intense lighting, flow and skimming IMO. So you may be better served to save up and buy quality items the first time around. Good luck just my 2 cents.

 

[Chasedenver]

Read up on chemistry.
I underestimated how often I would have to go to the lfs to get Ro/di
I thought I could go get my water out of the purifying machines at the store but didn't take into consideration what plumbing they may use or how often its serviced. I ended up buying my own system.

Yeah, I have zero interest in fooling around with the water, nor trusting the store to give me good water. Hence wanting to just get my own RODI immediately.
I've got a lot more to learn about the differences in chemistry and will be sure to do that. Thanks

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[Chasedenver]

Welcome to the forum. I don't know if you made a typo but SPS coral are usually the more demanding coral to keep.

As far as equipment you listed I am not familiar with those LED's, The RO/DI from spectra pur is a good choice. I use reef crystals myself for years. Skimmers and powerheads IMO are a get what you pay for type of thing.

There is a sticky at the top of the forum called "setting up", look for the big red arrow, it is full of good info. So of it will know already.

The one piece of advice that I can give at this point is to figure out what you want to keep then buy the equipment for it. Since you mentioned SPS Coral these will require more intense lighting, flow and skimming IMO. So you may be better served to save up and buy quality items the first time around. Good luck just my 2 cents.

Doh! I definitely meant LPS. Can I edit my original post using the Tapatalk app? Navigating is a bit different than Fishlore.

As far as needing help with skimmers and power heads, I dont mind saving up for good equipment. But I work in the pet industry and know that not everything that comes with a high price tag is worth what you're paying. I like that everyone seems pretty satisfied with the Reef Octopus line but how do I know which size to get if DT and sump combined hold maybe 60 gallons of water? How do I know how much combined horsepower on pumps will give me the appropriate flow for softies and LPS? There seem to be far fewer strict guidelines for saltwater, which is actually kind of nice. But for a newbie who doesn't want to buy the wrong things, it can be slightly daunting. I'll see if I can't find the threads you're talking about, I appreciate your help.

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[SFish]

On the skimmer I'd go in the 100 to 120 range (where it says heavy Bio load). As far as flow you also have to take your return pump into account as I would run a sump.

 

[Timfish]

Welcome to reefs and Reefcentral! There's tons of research out there in case you haven't noticed!
One book I would strongly encourage you to read is Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" It's a fairly cheap (ebook is $10), very readable introduction to more recent research on reefs and how nutrients and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) impact corals.

Another series of articles I would suggest to get a better idea of how GAC, TOC and skimmers impact reef aquariums are:

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

Total Organic Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Skimmate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

A couple additional points: One is research not only each individual coral species but each individual colony if possible. The terms "SPS", "LPS" and "Softie" are colloquial terms and have no relevance to husbandry requirements, additionally corals have memories and two different colonies of the same species may react differently when introduced to the same conditions.

The nitrogen cycle is very complex in reef systems. it's not a simple loop as presented in freshwater or fish only systems. Healthy corals are autotrophs and are pulling ammonia, urea, amino acids and nitrates from the water to meet their nitrogen needs, completely bypassing the basic nitrification loop typically presented. I consider them the central part of the filtration and not part of the bioload like fish and many other inverts are. And phosphate is a limiting nutrient for corals to utilize nitrates, it's not the poison as presented by some.

Happy Reefing!

 

[Chasedenver]

On the skimmer I'd go in the 100 to 120 range (where it says heavy Bio load). As far as flow you also have to take your return pump into account as I would run a sump.

I'm definitely going to run a sump. I'm thinking a 20 gallon long. I want to build in a refugium and house the skimmer and heater. I think it will be tight but I need to leave space to work in the stand. If I have to rip things apart to access them for maintenance I fear they won't receive enough attention. With my old 55 gallon fresh, I bought a premade wet dry that had an overflow box and it was advised to get around 1,000 GPH return pump. I did add a ball valve to that to adjust flow. When everything moved into the 85 gallon, I had that tank predrilled and have still had the water level steady.
On one hand I figure I could buy a similarly sized pump and just adjust the flow with a valve, but on the other I don't want to buy a pump that's too powerful, run it at 50%, and burn out the motor too quickly by over limiting the flow. Is that crazy talk or am I onto something? Haha.
Thanks for the guidance on skimmers. I'm going to read the links posted after your comment and then start comparing my options.

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[Chasedenver]

Welcome to reefs and Reefcentral! There's tons of research out there in case you haven't noticed!
One book I would strongly encourage you to read is Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" It's a fairly cheap (ebook is $10), very readable introduction to more recent research on reefs and how nutrients and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) impact corals.

Another series of articles I would suggest to get a better idea of how GAC, TOC and skimmers impact reef aquariums are:

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

Total Organic Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Skimmate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

A couple additional points: One is research not only each individual coral species but each individual colony if possible. The terms "SPS", "LPS" and "Softie" are colloquial terms and have no relevance to husbandry requirements, additionally corals have memories and two different colonies of the same species may react differently when introduced to the same conditions.

The nitrogen cycle is very complex in reef systems. it's not a simple loop as presented in freshwater or fish only systems. Healthy corals are autotrophs and are pulling ammonia, urea, amino acids and nitrates from the water to meet their nitrogen needs, completely bypassing the basic nitrification loop typically presented. I consider them the central part of the filtration and not part of the bioload like fish and many other inverts are. And phosphate is a limiting nutrient for corals to utilize nitrates, it's not the poison as presented by some.

Happy Reefing!

You. Are. Amazing. I found the stickies and have been reading non stop for days. But these are going to be extremely helpful, thank you!

On a side note, found another potential place to buy rock from.

http://www.reefcleaners.org/aquarium-store/florida-reef-rock-50lbs-free-shipping

$90 pre tax for a 50 lb box, also from Florida and also mined in an environmentally friendly manner. I'm leaning more towards dry rock because I can really take my time while scaping it. I might add a small piece of nice live rock later to introduce some critters, but I'm not entirely sure. Off to do more reading, haha.

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[SFish]

A 20 long is going to be tight for a skimmer. There are also external skimmers. In any case you're probably going to want a space saver skimmer. I would wait for Petco's $/gal sale and pick up a tank and make that into your sump otherwise your looking at spending a few $100s on a glorified tank. The pump size really depends on how much stuff you want to run and your piping. 90s will kill your flow big time. Keep in mind if you over size the pump a bit you can dial it down but if you under size it you will have have to buy another pump. You could also look at DC pumps which are controllable.

 

[SFish]

The proper way to dial a return pump down is like this.

 

[Chasedenver]

So if space is limited inside the sump should I consider a hang on the back to attach to the side of the sump? Is there a significant difference between efficiency?

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[SFish]

So if space is limited inside the sump should I consider a hang on the back to attach to the side of the sump? Is there a significant difference between efficiency?

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An external skimmer is not the same as a HOB skimmer. If you can't find a skimmer that will fit then I would look at external skimmers but I would try to find one that will fit first unless you want to open up the sump more.

 

[Chasedenver]

An external skimmer is not the same as a HOB skimmer. If you can't find a skimmer that will fit then I would look at external skimmers but I would try to find one that will fit first unless you want to open up the sump more.

Oh, I didn't realize that. I'll look into it. I haven't seen any local shops that sell the Reef Octopus which is kind of what I'm leaning towards. I wish I could see it in the tank. I might have to put together the sump using cardboard where I'd place baffles and make a model of the equipment. I wanted to make sure to leave enough space for a refugium. I guess I could find a way to use a HOB or something along those lines to allow more space for the skimmer.
Any opinions on the space saver one by Reef Octopus for 110 gallons?

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[SFish]

 

[SFish]

 

[SFish]

Oh, I didn't realize that. I'll look into it. I haven't seen any local shops that sell the Reef Octopus which is kind of what I'm leaning towards. I wish I could see it in the tank. I might have to put together the sump using cardboard where I'd place baffles and make a model of the equipment. I wanted to make sure to leave enough space for a refugium. I guess I could find a way to use a HOB or something along those lines to allow more space for the skimmer.
Any opinions on the space saver one by Reef Octopus for 110 gallons?

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You wont find good skimmers in LFS. I wouldn't run a HOB and another skimmer together as that would be a waste of money.

 

[Chasedenver]

You wont find good skimmers in LFS. I wouldn't run a HOB and another skimmer together as that would be a waste of money.

Thanks for the pictures and recommendation! I meant a HOB power filter being utilized as a little refugium, or maybe just taking the plunge on a hang on refugium that holds a gallon or so. I really like the idea of natural filtration and especially like the idea of having a breeding area for pods and other critters.

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[SFish]

I would go with the sump. HOBs look ugly. A HOB filter will make a lot of noise and you will have salt spray all over the top of your tank. By the way that tank in the pic is a 20 long.

 

[Chasedenver]

I would go with the sump. HOBs look ugly. A HOB filter will make a lot of noise and you will have salt spray all over the top of your tank. By the way that tank in the pic is a 20 long.

I am. I'm just wondering if I'll have space IN the sump once I put the skimmer, heater, and dosing pump in. If not, I'm considering attaching a HOB refugium to the sump. Sump is a must, I hate looking at too much equipment and it's easier to keep my little one out of stuff if it's closed up underneath.
The picture you posted was really helpful, I think I'd have space in the center for some macroalgae. Do you use a baffle to have a refugium towards the front or back to break up the flow? I've seen some designed in such a way but admittedly don't understand the reasoning.

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