Risk Assessment - Bad Prophylactic Dip

[skyrne_isk]

So after buying an echinata today and doing my usual dip, I happily added my new piece to the tank. I took a look at the bottom of the container to see what bugs had fallen off - it's more or less the protocol for me. Both interceptor and TMPCC were treated in the cup. Seeing nothing in the acclimation container, I added the piece to the tank and went on about my day.

About an hour later - I had an off thought about thinking it odd to not see SOMETHING dead in the bottom of the treatment container, especially a wild piece. So I opened up a new bottle of TMPCC (the bottle I used was getting on in age) and upped the interceptor dosage. I also treated lightly the first time around as I have had the delicate branching smooth acros not take too well to prophylactic treatments and RTN the next day after treating.

After the second treatment that stretched out to 30 minutes or so, I found these in the bottom of the container.

The pictures aren't the best (iPhone pics) but there were 3-4 tiny flatworms. They were maybe the size of the head of a pin. So along with a couple random pods that were nuked, now I am more than a little worried about what I may now be looking at. I sucked one into a pipette and they are definitely flatworms - of some time. I guess I am trying to understand if disaster is maybe avoided since they were only in the tank for an hour and that the coral was in a low flow area during that time. I am definitely acro pest free for the time being.


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A couple questions:

Are harmful AEFW generally that small? I understand younger AEFW may be tiny, but these were all the same size... Typically I have seen larger/various sized AEFW when I have faced these evil bastards in the past.

Would flatworms tend to stay close on the stalk of the coral after being placed into the tank? Part of me is thinking that the acclimation process would result in a little more mucous and that this mucous would tend to not shed the flatworm off the coral - but this is a guess/hope.

Anyone have something like this happen to them in the past? I am trying to gauge what next steps are - like setting up a QT system so that if I see problems 7-10 days out I am already ahead. Not sure at this point it would be other than a waste of time, though.

After close inspection, there were no bite marks anywhere on the coral, nor were there egg clusters, etc. Hard to think though that these are something other than flatworms that eat acro, though...

 

[dadummy]

looks like aefw to me, can't be certain from the picture. And yes, they are that small and smaller. How do you know you removed all the aefw from the infected coral before placing back in system? What if there were eggs on the plug that were overlooked? What if a flatworm blew off the coral when it was first placed in tank?

QT is not a waste of time

 

[flamron]

Appear to be AEFW to me as well.

Assume your entire tank is infested at this point or will be shortly once the first round of eggs hatch. Dipping does nothing. QT is a necessity - and I'd QT everything for a minimum of 48 days (dipping 6 days apart in Bayer).

 

[skyrne_isk]

How do you know you removed all the aefw from the infected coral before placing back in system? What if there were eggs on the plug that were overlooked? What if a flatworm blew off the coral when it was first placed in tank?

QT is not a waste of time

I don't know, that's kind of the issue. There is no plug or base for this coral, so I have that going for me. There is definitely a chance that a flatworm blew off when being placed into the tank. I suppose at this point it's about balancing taking a sure loss if I break off all the encrusted pieces and put them into the QT while the main display runs SPS fallow for a while.

I don't know all modalities of travel for AEFW - currents and crawling, probably?

 

[skyrne_isk]

Appear to be AEFW to me as well.

Assume your entire tank is infested at this point or will be shortly once the first round of eggs hatch. Dipping does nothing. QT is a necessity - and I'd QT everything for a minimum of 48 days (dipping 6 days apart in Bayer).

So would you wait to see some signs before chiseling out established pieces or just do it now?

That's where I am now. I suppose I have 2-3 weeks to make a decision if a breakout were to occur before real damage begins. Part of me wants to see if I dodged a bullet - especially if I have moved the big piece of the echinata to the QT (in case of hidden or not easily visible eggs). A small 1" piece is still in the main display while I am taking this wait and see approach.

I don't know anything about Bayer, never used it before. In the last year, I have probably added 5-6 pieces using a dip with TMPCC/CoralRx and Interceptor with good outcomes.

 

[scottwhitson]

They look like AEFW to me as well. If you haven't been using a quarantine system then there is a good chance that you already have AEFW because no dip kills the eggs. Alot of beautiful tanks have AEFW in them and some tanks run for years after the last addition of new coral only to find AEFW in them. I would try basting your corals and watch for anything to fly off of them and then you will know for sure if you have AEFW in the tank or not. I have had AEFW in the past and colonies that didn't look affected did have AEFW on them and were found during basting.

 

[skyrne_isk]

Well here is what I have done so far:

Pulled out all movable pieces that are not encrusted and dipped in CoralRx. I have kept the echinata in the QT tank and have dipped it every 3-4 days. FWIW, nothing has come off any of my SPS during these subsequent dips. So my initial concerns are somewhat assuaged.

My thinking is that I will continue these dips on a weekly basis and will only cut the bigger encrusted pieces out if these dips show anything. I took some pics of the encrusted colonies for comparison purposes as I monitor for lighter than normal color, less PE, bite marks and/or changes in appearance.

The rationale is that if the AEFW are still present, all the corals can be pulled when/if signs of infestation are present. While some tissue may be lost via an infestation, coral tissue WILL be lost if a chisel is taken to everything and probably more still during the stay in QT. I would hate to pull them all out unless absolutely necessary.

The downside is these dips may be serving only to keep in check an infestation - especially if the encrusted pieces get them. Hence the pictures giving me a comparison point while ongoing observation occurs.

So while AEFW were certainly introduced for a limited duration, I doubt the ability of an individual flatworm to find a host is 100%. I'm hoping to dodge a bullet, but the cost of catching and curing an infestation appears to be the same as preventing one. If anyone has a different experience do let me know. I wish I knew more about planarian settlement rates and biology in general (like do the weakened flatworms that were dipped but not killed during the initial placement in the tank even have the ability to reproduce without laying eggs? what is the probability of an individual flatworm to settle out of the water column onto a host in our tanks?)

I'll keep my progress posted on how this turns out.

 

[skyrne_isk]

No signs of flatworms so far. Is there anyone of the mind that the dips can be discontinued for a while? I'm sure the dipping process has some impact to coral health. Thoughts?

 

[skyrne_isk]

so after all this time, still no flatworms have come up on any dips. here is how the echinata that started all this!
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At night, good PE!
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