seahorse help needed

[Zoa]

ok---answers to questions.

The first seahorse hasn't eaten on his own since before my first post. when he did eat a little bit, it wasn't much compared to what the other ate when it was better. He seems disinterested in the food, and actually swims away, as if he was 'scared off'

I didn't realize I could go 10 days with the neomycin/triple sulfa.

The second seahorse's wound seems to be staying the same....I was doing the neosporin 1x a day, I will use the betadine also.

I do have a package of the Furan 2 also.

I actually have Prazipro--can I still use the betadine/neosporin with it? I hadn't even considered worms. I am a bit leery of prazipro in the tube as some days I am more successful with this than others....


should I try the Furan 2 with the prazipro or do I need to just choose 1? would you recommend trying the prazipro first? if so, do you still do water changes during the 3 week period and re-add the prazipro to make up for the water change?

can I continue the neosporin and use betadine with either of these treatments?


there was a mention of different dewormings--does that require different medication aside from the prazipro that I should look into?

ok--going to check in on them........

thank you again...

 

[NanoLurker]

zoa, first off let me just tell you that you're doing a great job! don't get too hung up on the 7 day, 10 day thing right now. you had a horse that was laying on it's side in the tank and now he's able to swim on his own again. that's no small accomplishment!

for the little fella since it's been so long since he's eaten on his own, i don't know if we're going to be able to turn him around once they "shut down" their prognosis isn't too good. we can try though but i don't want you to get your hopes up too much. we'll just treat for the usual suspects and hope he pulls through.

the easiest, least invasive thing to try first would be some live mysid shrimp. acroboy, if you're following this thread do you know anyone locally that is breeding them? zoa, do you have any in your fuge? i've always purchased mine from either reedmariculture or seahorsesource, sach's aquaculture is also a possibility. the reed and seahorse source mysid are aquacultured, the sach's are wild caught. i do understand that not all can afford to do this.

both horses have had FW dips and were treated with formalin, so we're pretty covered for a lot of ectoparasites. next we'll try deworming, i use two meds - praziquantel (hikari's prazi-pro) and liquid fenbendazole (it's a dog dewormer). since you have the prazi-pro we can start with that. what problems have you had with hikari's prazi-pro?

after rereading the options i posted for it, i'll clear something up:

24 hour bath: add 2 ml to QT tank. at the end of 24 hours i either transfer to new QT tank or do a 100% water change. it's a higher dosage over a shorter period of time. this is done once a week for three consecutive weeks. since they are put back in "clean" water, if for any reason a problem develops you're ready to treat with antibiotics. a lot of people are afraid of 100% percent water changes, if you're one of them, you may be more comfortable with method number 2 or 3.

if your horses were eating, you could gut load brine shrimp or inject a small amount into live feeder shrimp and feed out 2-3 consecutive days a week. the other option is, since your tube feeding anyway, to add a small amount to that. i tend to make everything a science project and probably go a little too far overboard with the way i do things. as a reference for dosing orally i administered .02 ml to an adult erectus who weighed 19 grams. so you see, only a small amount is required.

have i made your head spin? have i given you too many options? i'm sorry if i have, there's no set in stone way to administer these meds. since we all have our own comfort zone you can pick which one you're most comfortable with.

for the larger horse: this horse was in the fuge while you treated the other with the neomycin/triple sulfa, right? if not and this horse previously had the 7 day neomycin/triple sulfa treatment and has subsequently developed this lesion start it on furan2. don't worry about applying a topical if this is the case. i think we need to get this lesion under control. can you get some more pics with the new camera? in the interim, can you look here and tell me which one corresponds most to what you're seeing? http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showforum=63 in the "Lesions" section you have to click on the underlined words in order to bring up the photos.

 

[Zoa]

Thank you for the encouragement Nano!

I moved things around some time ago as far as my fuges. So most shrimp/pods probably made its way to the larger tank. I do have a bunch of shrimp sacs waiting to pop in another tank if I cannot find enough live mysid. But, if the seahorses are just lying around, will they be able to catch the shrimp?

Seahorse 1, like I said looks like its body has concaved in on one side and very thin on the other. But as you said, it does lift its head as opposed to lying flat which is good..

Seahorse 2 who had the bubble now lies flat. I had trouble feeding 2 today and yesterday. The feeding time does stress him/her out, and with the lesion, I do not want to overdo it. The lesion is more white now (without the Neosporin). I squirted a quick shot of diluted betadine bath over the wound and will use Neosporin.

After the reading that you gave me and from the short chat with Dan, about the possibility of ‘tickling it out’ of the horse, I would guess it was NOT EGBD . Since the air was tickled I guess it is probably a male. Before this, it could not leave the surface of the waterâ€"floating upside down.

Can you tell from these crappy pictures what gender they are?
I pmed Acroboy shortly after he was recommended on the thread. I asked him to read the thread and add input as he felt needed. He was unavailable to both responding and post to the thread. If you happen to talk to him, please ask him.
I do not know anyone who is local that breeds the mysid, nor how much longer till I know the egg sac opens. I guess I can pm Acroboy and see if he is more available at this time.

Nano-- ”I've always purchased mine from either reedmariculture or seahorsesource, sach's aquaculture is also a possibility. the reed and seahorse source mysid are aquacultured, the sach's are wild caught. i do understand that not all can afford to do this.”
Is there a big difference other that price (i.e.,-quality) between the two different types? I don’t mind placing an order. But it would be a bummer if they did not try to eat it, They seem very disinterested in food. Do they prefer the wild caught mysid?
Nano â€"œÃ¢â‚¬Å“both horses have had FW dips and were treated with formalin, so we're pretty covered for a lot of ectoparasites. Next we'll try deworming, i use two meds - praziquantel (hikari's prazi-pro) and liquid fenbendazole (it's a dog dewormer). since you have the prazi-pro we can start with that. what problems have you had with hikari's prazi-pro? after rereading the options i posted for it, i'll clear something up. “
I am not sure what you mean here. I ended up with those ugly red flatworms from a LFS. I called the Prazipro Company and they told me that feather dusters were the most fragile. I can ask about seahorses too since most of my questions were about corals and fish at the time.
The seahorses are in a 10 gal QT.
Have you used prazipro before on seahorses?
I think I have heard of the dog dewormer… liquid fenbendazole. Should I get some to have it ready or wait for the prazipro to see how it works? The liquid fenbendazole can be picked up in pet stores correct?
Nano â€"œÃ¢â‚¬Å“24 hour bath: add 2 ml to QT tank. at the end of 24 hours I either transfer to new QT tank or do a 100% water change. it's a higher dosage over a shorter period of time. this is done once a week for three consecutive weeks. since they are put back in "clean" water, if for any reason a problem develops you're ready to treat with antibiotics. a lot of people are afraid of 100% percent water changes, if you're one of them, you may be more comfortable with method number 2 or 3.”

Okâ€"just to clarify---1st day add 2ml per 10 gal. Do you do a 100% water change before starting treatment? During the next couple of weeks, you do not water changes until it is time for the next treatment?
What is the higher dosage for a shorter period of time, just because my one seahorse looks like a save the starving children commercial…. or is this higher level is more dangerous
Are there specific salinity parameters that would work best with prazipro?
Can I still use the betadine / Neosporin on the wound?
Will the Furan 2 counteract or otherwise cause negative effects?
No place around me sells brine shrimp, so I haven’t tried this type of feeding. I am a bit leery of using the tube only because some days I am more or less successful during feed times, and that would be hard to accurately measure. How do you gut-load---inject food into the shrimp with a syringe.

If your horses were eating, you could gut load brine shrimp or inject a small amount into live feeder shrimp and feed out 2-3 consecutive days a week. The other option is, since your tube feeding anyway, to add a small amount to that. I tend to make everything a science project and probably go a little too far overboard with the way I do things. as a reference for dosing orally I administered .02 ml to an adult erectus who weighed 19 grams. so you see, only a small amount is required.

Nanohave I made your head spin? have i given you too many options? i'm sorry if i have, there's no set in stone way to administer these meds. since we all have our own comfort zone you can pick which one you're most comfortable with.

Nano--for the larger horse: if this horse previously had the 7 day neomycin/triple sulfa treatment and has subsequently developed this lesion start it on furan2. don't worry about applying a topical if this is the case. can you get some more pics with the new camera?
Both horses had the neomycin/triple sulfa and formalin treatments.

It sounds like you would try prazipro over the furan at this time. Can I do the furan and prazipro at same time if lesion does not heal? or just stick with the betadine and Neosporin?

Sorry for so many questions…trying to absorb it all!

And yeah a bit of head spinning but it helps me learn more.

Thanks…

 

[NanoLurker]

i'll answer more later, but i'm really late for work since i overslept :eek2:

i prefer the aquacultured mysid, don't have to worry about pathogens being introduced into the tank. problem is it's thursday, they're shipped from florida and they generally only ship tuesday through thursday. there's no guarantee that they'll eat them, generally a seahorse will go absolutely nuts for live mysid. we're trying to get a feeding response out of them, trigger something in them to stimulate their appetite and will to eat on their own.

be back later.......

 

[NanoLurker]

Seahorse 2 who had the bubble now lies flat.

we need to get this horse on antiobiotics now, the deworming can wait. if the neosporin appeared to be somewhat effective then you can try the neomycin/triple sulfa combo again. my only concern is that you previously treated with it and has since developed this lesion. that was my rationale for starting the furan2. you can get a second opinion on that, but we have to get him started on something asap.

Seahorse 1, like I said looks like its body has concaved in on one side and very thin on the other. But as you said, it does lift its head as opposed to lying flat which is good.

this is only something you can determine and go with your gut on it - do you feel this horse is backsliding? if this horse is still staying in one spot and not moving then i would retreat it with antibiotics. i wish i could see the horse, this is so hard.

i looked at the photos, looks like two boys. picture 3 is a little deceiving because from that angle it looks like a female, but in your hand it appears to be a boy. a clear picture of them would help, i just can't see any detail in the photos

the antibiotics and the dewormers are two compeltely seperate treatments - i do one or do the other, i have no idea what would happen if you dosed the tank with those different meds.

i've used all three of the prazi-pro methods on seahorses and have not had a problem with it. i will admit that the horses i've used it on were probably in a little better shape than yours are right now. the only one that is a candidate to even try it (maybe) is seahorse 1.

i perform the 24 hour bath and at it's completion, do a 100% water change. after their treatment they are in clean, unmedicated water. this is just for future reference as an example of how i do it - if i start the 24 hour prazi-pro bath at 8:00 am on sunday, then at 8:00 am on monday i would put them in a container, do a 100% water change, then transfer them to the clean, unmedicated water. the following sunday, the same thing, the sunday after that, the same thing. that's just the way i've done them, a 50% water change and adding carbon would probably work as well. i just don't like residual meds in a tank, just me though.

don't worry about the fenbendazole right now.

i've done the betadine wash while the horse was on furan2. i haven't tried the neosporin with the furan2.

 

[Zoa]

ok--I did the betadine wash and started the Furan 2 tonight.

I was able to feed Seahorse #1 again without the clove oil.

I tried with #2, as with the lesion, bubble, etc....I didn't want more stress....ha! This seahorse has also had a slow time coming out of the clove oil so I was trying not to use it......but I had to and I did manage to feed #2 also.


Until later.......zoa

 

[NanoLurker]

i asked someone with more experience than me and you can continue the neosporin on the lesion while he's on the furan2.