Setting up a 40gal SH Tank

[Bemmer]

Hey all,
I am setting up a 40 gal seahorse tank. The dimensions are 30Lx12 1/2Dx25H. I currently have two large pieces of LR and two pieces of clear PVC pipe in the tank. The LR is tonga with branches for hitching. And the clear PVC pipe is to watch critters that dive into the holes. I hope to put in a goby/shrimp pair.

I currently have a 175w MH with actinic pendant lighting above the tank so I can have zoo colonies in the sand bed. The water movement is from a 1/2" seaswirl that comes from the return plumbing. The tank is plumbed inline with the main system. Currently I do not have a chiller on the system but will eventually get one. I hope to keep two mated pairs of CB Kudi or Reidi seahorses in this tank.

Here are some pics (front wall construction is underway) :
Both inwall tanks

Seahorse Tank...

Close up shots...

Anyway, with all that said, I would like to know what macro algae or other plant life I should put into the tank for good hitching. As you can see, I have room on the right side of the tank to plant seagrass or other things. I am thinking of leaving the tank empty of livestock for about six months to build up a pod population in the tank. Next steps advice would be appreciated.

Also, when I do put the seahorses in, do I put their fish tankmates in first or the seahorses?

 

[Bemmer]

Hey guys,
I see a few lookers but no one responding??? Looking for some help from the experts.

Thanks

 

[Mr.Nudibranch]

I don't think it really matters who you put in first and as far as macro maybe some grape vine macro stuff like that are good breeding grounds and you don't need copods for seahorse to thrive what are you planning on feeding them?

 

[Bemmer]

Hey Mr. Nudibranch,
Thanks for your response. I plan on feeding them small PE mysis shrimp mostly. I thought it would be good to have the pods in the tank, anyway, though.

What seahorses are you getting and what is your water temp going to be in the tank?

BTW, I always thought Nudibranches were awesome but dangerous to have because of the toxins they put off if threatened and challenging to keep in general. Do you have them in your agressive tank? I don't know much about them but they are so beautiful.

 

[Mr.Nudibranch]

Ya the mysis shrimp is good I feed my two the same I actually feed mine a mix like the mysis and brine and sometimes add a little plankton ya it's always good but not a necessity, now you can get copods in a bottle and acclimate them in your tank to maybe save some time. Now as far as temp goes I have mine in my reef tank and have had them in there for about three or four months with a temp of 77-80 and they do fine. I am finishing my 30gal SH only tank this weekend so they will be happy but I think I am going to keep the tank at 74-78 to be on the safe side not sure yet. And yes some nudibranch have toxins but I do not have any more left because they usually only last about six months but I had my first 1 up to 5 months and the guy said that he had him for 3-4 months already

 

[CodyH]

Great job so far. 40g sounds perfect for 2 pairs, especially with that height.

It looks like you actually did research on the seahorses, I commend you.
PE mysis=best food for cb seahorses.

Any macro that thrives in your tank will be fine, that's just a matter of your personal choice and aesthetics.
Just curious since you have halides on the tank, have you considered true seagrasses? If you had your sandbed deeper at 5", you could probably get away the vascular plants rather than just macro. That would look even more natural, and also help with nutrient export.
Edit: just saw you mentioned the grass. Go for the taller ones like turtle grass. There's also manatee and shoal grass but they're thinner. Either way, the 6 month wait will be greatfor aging the soil/mud you would use for them.

The only concern (which isn't bad), just make sure the flow isn't in one very high jetstream. I and others have been experimenting with different diffusers to have higher than the 'normal' low flow for sh.

A lot of people say 78F is fine for the tropical seahorses, however, bacteria thrives more readily at the temp, so twice as many people urge that lower (max 76F) is always best. Also, the oxygen decreases in higher temps; seahorses have their little 'special' gills, so you may consider the oxygen levels.

 

[Bemmer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7664103#post7664103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr.Nudibranch
Ya the mysis shrimp is good I feed my two the same I actually feed mine a mix like the mysis and brine and sometimes add a little plankton ya it's always good but not a necessity, now you can get copods in a bottle and acclimate them in your tank to maybe save some time. Now as far as temp goes I have mine in my reef tank and have had them in there for about three or four months with a temp of 77-80 and they do fine. I am finishing my 30gal SH only tank this weekend so they will be happy but I think I am going to keep the tank at 74-78 to be on the safe side not sure yet. And yes some nudibranch have toxins but I do not have any more left because they usually only last about six months but I had my first 1 up to 5 months and the guy said that he had him for 3-4 months already

Can I call you 'Nudi' for short.
With all the MH lights on the main tank and the seahorse tank, I am going to need to get a chiller to keep my temp down. I am currently running between 79-82 on the main and seahorse tank. (no seahorses in the tank yet) I am wondering, though about replumbing the seahorse tank off the main sump and just putting in a small sump and skimmer just for the seahorse tank. Then I can get a small chiller for the seahorse tank and not worry so much about the temperature going above 78F, which from what I read is optimal. Are you doing a chiller in your 30 gal SH only tank? How are you going to keep the temp down?

Do most people run their seahorse tank as a competely seperate system than their main tank?

 

[Bemmer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7664429#post7664429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CodyH
Great job so far. 40g sounds perfect for 2 pairs, especially with that height.

It looks like you actually did research on the seahorses, I commend you.
PE mysis=best food for cb seahorses.

Any macro that thrives in your tank will be fine, that's just a matter of your personal choice and aesthetics.
Just curious since you have halides on the tank, have you considered true seagrasses? If you had your sandbed deeper at 5", you could probably get away the vascular plants rather than just macro. That would look even more natural, and also help with nutrient export.
Edit: just saw you mentioned the grass. Go for the taller ones like turtle grass. There's also manatee and shoal grass but they're thinner. Either way, the 6 month wait will be greatfor aging the soil/mud you would use for them.

The only concern (which isn't bad), just make sure the flow isn't in one very high jetstream. I and others have been experimenting with different diffusers to have higher than the 'normal' low flow for sh.

A lot of people say 78F is fine for the tropical seahorses, however, bacteria thrives more readily at the temp, so twice as many people urge that lower (max 76F) is always best. Also, the oxygen decreases in higher temps; seahorses have their little 'special' gills, so you may consider the oxygen levels.

Cody,
Thank you for your compliments. It is with help from folks like you that help us newbies with seahorses. I am really excited about this seahorse tank. Most of my friends' kids are more interested in the seahorses than the main tank.

Anyway, my sandbed is about 3" but I could make it deeper to keep the seagrasses. My ideal would be to make it as natural looking as possible (excluding the clear pvc pipe for the shrimp/goby pair). Where would I purchase turtle grass or some of the other grasses? Do I need to add mud to the sandbed to grow these grasses?

Currently my water movement is from one 1/2" seaswirl located in the back corner of the tank. It does not offer much water movement near the bottom of the tank. Would you add a powerhead with a diffuser to get more water movement in the tank?

Your comments on the temperature further addresses my concern with having the seahorse tank plumbed directly into the main sump system. I need to keep the water temp much lower than I would on the reef tank. Hmmm...guess I need to rethink the plumbing on the SH tank.

BTW, do you have any pipe fish with your seahorses? What fish do you have, if any, in your SH tank?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[CodyH]

78*F is not "ideal" because bacteria thives and spreads like wildfire. Seahorses can be hurt easily or contract an illness if something goes awry in the tank. Anything (from being hit in the eye by another seahorse to getting an open cut from rock to burns from wrapping around a heater) can lead to infections if they go unnoticed for a short time, even shorter with high temps.
The lower temps are like a safety net for you as a keeper.

(I don't know if you visit forum.seahorse.org, but there is a lot of information showing different studies if you search around. One of the adminstrators there is a human patholgist who also performs necropsies on seahorses that members decide to send to him for study and determination of the cause of death.)

Also, the oxygen saturation decreases at higher temps from what I understand. In my own experience and opinion, 76*F would be the highest ideal temp. It is difficult, especially in summer, to have a reef and sh tank combined. If you do not already use cooling fans, they can do a nice job when blowing across the tank tops. I don't know if they would fit in your tank area though. Just a thought.

I don't want anyone to feel attacked whatsoever, but many reefers say 78* is "ideal" only because it suits their corals and the seahorse guides list 78* as the highest temp range acceptable for tropical species.

I have two erectus males at the moment. No pipefish. There are many studies and speculations about mixing pipes with sh. I personally would advise you *not* to try this because there are many many pathogens that can be spread from one to the other, especially since most pipes are WC. Also, pipefish rarely accept frozen foods (many cannot consume it because of mouth size and PE mysis is large, but not all) the way CB seahorses do. They (the pipes) usually turn to live bbs and pods. Depending on the size and type the pods, seahorses may turn to them from frozen, as well as the brine shrimp depending on size. It's not as likely as the bacterial issues, but still it's possible enough to consider beforehand. I haven't been too involved in reading about the

As for flow, if you aren't keeping corals, I think the only necessary flow is plenty of surface agitation to keep the water oxygen-rich. "Ideal" flow in a seahorse tanks ranges from 3-5 times turnover. So in a 40g, anywhere from 120 to 200gph(after head loss) is considered ideal but you can increase it as long as you diffuse it (via a diffuser or spray bar). My eheim canister is rated at . My maxijet is rated 230gph.
So I figure my turnover is about 6x after head loss. The eheim canister output is diffused, so the seahorses don't get jetted into the glass.
Just think about the flow as gentle current being best, not a hurricane or tidal wave.

I don't currently have any fish with the seahorse. Just a bunch of inverts and a sun coral/tubastrea. I've been working on vast improvements for the tank, rearranging, adjusting my sump/fuge. I eventually plan to have at least some cardinals and a clown goby. I'm waiting for the seller of my 2 males to have a female erectus available.

The mud would be ideal (if not necessary) for the turtle grass. You could mix the mud with the bottom layers of sand and top it off with aragonite to prevent silt storms. It has true roots which need the deep substrate to develop properly. You might consider reading up on turtle grass's specific requirements in the macroalgae and marine plants threads. It grows tall, which is why it would do well in the 40g. You can find it at floridapets plant/macro section sometimes, just ask if it's in stock before ordering. With the other grasses (stargrass, manatee grass, and shoal grass) a substrate of 4-5 inches would be okay for their roots and growth if you use the mud topped with sand.

However, the temperature from the reef and halides would not be good. Remember that the macroalgae are part of wild seahorses everyday lives too, so it is natural. This site has some rare macros occasionally.

I've only had seahorses since Nov. 2005, so I'm still somewhat noob-ish, but not as much as you
My tank probably seems pretty plain, but it is my first SW experience. All this is just my opinion and knowledge from reading, I'm not an expert or anything close. I just try to read what I can to keep the seahorses well. So, just take the advice for what it's worth.

 

[ReefNutPA]

Very thorough reply, Cody. Good job!

Tom

 

[Bemmer]

Cody,
Thanks for taking the time to provide such a thorough reply. I will reread it a couple of time to digest it. I will chat with you again when I return from an out of town trip.

R-

 

[Bemmer]

Okay, so maybe I should rethink the clear PVC pipe. Hmmm. I found a hermit crab in the pipe and I don't think he can get out without some help. So, perhaps if I get a shrimp/goby pair, the shrimp may not be able to get out of the pipe. Should I pull the pipe out???

Rebecca

 

[CodyH]

I don't have any experience with pistol shrimp/similar, just peppermints. They climb/swim the tank walls easily and efficiently with their swimming legs.

I would assume any shrimp would be fine since they all have this anatomy. However, some shrimp only use the swimming legs to swim backwards. But seeing how most shrimp in pairs are blind, the goby, which can swim out, would lead the shrimp well enough to get out. I would say it should be fine. The hermits are just limited with stiff legs.