Sick of ich!

[spehhh]

I,like many others have had the battle of the ich. i tried every possible but i kept on getting it back. so after seeing nothing but ich problem questions i have compiled a list of what work for me the best and maybe it will help someone else too.


Step 1. QT!! you can use anything for a qt old salt buckets,old tanks,tupperware ect. as long as it has water movment it will be fine.

step 2. gater the supplies needed to go to war.
here is what i learned worked the best for me.:reading:

Kordon rid-ich. works great to rid you of ich
fish vet- no ich worked great too(they say reef safe but dont believe it)

some sort of amonia killing device such as AM QUIL.

step 3. now that your prepared for the biggest headache of your life set up your QT. hypo salinty is an option in this but it is you own choice to do so.

mix brand new salt water and add it to the qt tank. let it ride for a couple days before adding the fish just in case of a spike of some sort.
next add medications of you choice and then add the fish.

step 4. keep a close watch on all fish to make sure there not showing signs of being ill or stressed. daily or every other day water changes will help in stopping the re infestation of the ich and also warmer water helps speed up the process in there life cycle.

step 5. QT is a short term process for a month or up to a couple all depends on how sure you want to be that it is all gone. keep your main display fishless for a month or so and when you are sure add the fish back. but make sure everything is gone,catching fish in a reef tank ot FOWLR is a pain so why do it twice?:thumbdown

always make sure the fish you are buying come from a store that you or someone you know has had a good experience at, cheap fish and cheap products means a very sad ending.

this is what i used as my plan or war against ICH. im no expert but im sharing what worked for me to help you.:thumbsup:

 

[Dino]

*Just a note, lets keep the language clean ok? If a word is on the censor its best to just not use it at all. There are little kids on this board . Thanks.

 

[RBU1]

Reef safe treatments like the ones you mention DO NOT WORK......

So skip that step.

Get the fish in a QT with great water quality, do frequent water changes, get the fish eating for a week or two.....Then decide on your course of treatment. If the fish stays clean during the first 2 weeks I start with a Prazi treatment. If something comes up then I treat accordingly. But copper or Hypo are the only treatments that work. Some are now using chloriquine that also seems to be effective.

SAVE YOUR MONEY and stay away from reef safe treatments.

 

[Orcrone]

+1 on RBU1 regarding copper or hypo.

A couple of other points. If ANY of your fish have ich then you want to treat them ASAP. If you mix up fresh saltwater you have to let it mix for a while before adding fish. Then they'll need to be acclimated to the new water. Why not start up your hospital tank using water from the DT? It has ich in it, but so do the fish. That will allow you to transfer the fish immediately without the need for acclimation. However, once treatment starts all water changes must be done with new water and NOT water from the DT. I also wouldn't wait two weeks to start treating. I'd start immediately. Depending on the severity of the outbreak there may not be very many fish left by the time treatment starts.

Also research has shown that 4 weeks is not enough time to allow the DT to sit fallow. 8 weeks will provide a 99.9% chance that the DT contains no living crypt parasites. Unfortunately the only way to be sure that the DT is without crypt is to allow it to sit fallow long enough. There's no way to look at a fallow DT after a month and determine whether there's any living crypt parasites.

One last point. It's much easier to keep disease out of a tank than rid the tank of disease. I'd rather use a 10 or 20 gallon QT individually on every fish before it enters my DT than use a larger QT on every fish to treat them for a disease. The cost is minimal and the potential headaches you may avoid are unmeasurable.

 

[Stuart60611]

Do NOT follow the OP's advice in the first post of this thread because it very inaccurate and mostly contains treatment opinions, treatment durations, and treatment advice that will not rid your fish of crypt (ich). The only reliable methods to eliminate this parasite are: hyposalinity, copper (most popular choice is cupramine), the tank transfer method, and the quinine based drugs. Formalin and malichite green can also work, but they are very harsh, dangerous, difficult to apply, and poisioneous and thus very frowned upon. NO other methods whatsoever are available to reliably eliminate the parasite.

Moreover, I will also submit that I find it irresponsible and even a bit immoral to start a thread like this spreading misinformation for others to rely upon so as to risk the well being of other peoples' fish. It is one thing if you decide for yourself to treat in this fashion, but in my view it is entirely inappropriate to advise other people in an authoritative way as this thread attempts to do to treat this parasite with methods that clearly will not work.

 

[Bananafish]

+1 on Stuart's comments. I do like Formalin, tho - it does what it says, if you know how to use it. Easy to overdose and kill if you don't. I use it out of habit. Also use copper and a few other things - depends what ails me

While we're at it... A great way to eliminate the crypt from a reef tank (which you can't medicate because there really are NO reef-safe drugs) is to remove all of your fish to a QT, crank up the heat to about 85 degrees, and wait 3 weeks for all the cysts to hatch and die from lack of fish to attach to. If 85 is going to kill anything, get it as hot as you can to speed this up or you'll have to wait a good 6 weeks at 78. Nobody ever tells you that, and if you don't know the guy at the LFS will say anything is reef safe if it means making a sale.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Do NOT follow the OP's advice in the first post of this thread because it very inaccurate and mostly contains treatment opinions and advice that will do nothing to rid your fish of crypt (ich). The only reliable methods to eliminate this parasite are: hyposalinity, copper (prefered choice is cupramine), the tank transfer method, and the quinine based drugs. Formalin and malichite green can also work, but they are very harsh, dangerous and poisioneous and thus very frowned upon. NO other methods whatsoever are available to reliably eliminate the parasite.

Moreover, I will also submit that I find it irresponsible and even a bit immoral to start a thread like this spreading misinformation for others to rely upon so as to risk the well being of other peoples' fish. It is one thing if you decide for yourself to treat in this fashion, but in my view it is entirely inappropriate to advise people in an authoritative way as this thread attempts to do to treat this parasite with methods that clearly will not work.

I agree completely. While I admit to having never used anything other than copper (Cupramine and a SeaChem copper test kit); I have followed the reports of other products for years. For every success story with a "miracle product", I'm sure I've heard of a dozen failures. I'd bet the farm that the success stories are short lived. Also, I know of no one that I would call an "authority" who has recommended these products. I've found Cupramine to be 100% effective, easy, and safe. It will not kill the QTs bio-filter. SeaChem, mfg of Cupramine, has a great tech dept and thy can help those new to treating with copper. From everything I know, the other methods stated by Stuart are also effective. Also; I've become convinced that much of the ich reported is not really true marine ich (Cryptocaryon irritans); because of the way it seems to appear, cause no symptoms, disappear, etc., etc.

 

[Orcrone]

Bananafish. Freshwater ich is affected by temperature, but raising the temp only has a minor effect on saltwater crypt. It may speed up its lifecycle slightly, but not enough to make any significant difference.

 

[jeremyblu]

friend of mine is having an ich out break he was told to use garlic food for the fish i think some type of garlic extrac or somethin not 100% sure but he says its working for him

 

[Orcrone]

friend of mine is having an ich out break he was told to use garlic food for the fish i think some type of garlic extrac or somethin not 100% sure but he says its working for him

I've heard this for years & it's not true. Many people have their homemade remedies. Because of its lifecycle you can only see ich on a fish for a short period of time. So people try garlic, "reef-safe" remedies, etc. The ich goes into a different stage & disappears to the naked eye & the aquarist thinks the ich is gone & the fish are cured.

 

[Stuart60611]

friend of mine is having an ich out break he was told to use garlic food for the fish i think some type of garlic extrac or somethin not 100% sure but he says its working for him

A important distinction needs to be drawn here. Garlic, vitamins, and other things may, indeed, improve the overall health and strengthen the immune system of fish so as to help the fish resist the parasite and/or cope with the parasite better. However, these items do not eliminate the parasite and only serve to help the fish resist or cope with the parasite.

 

[speedo2wet]

I made my own food over the years and liquid garlic was one of the ingredients that I used. It helped in batteling Ich. Also along with other treatments: reef safe, plant extracts etc. I would also look into stress factors towards the fish. You may have to do a few days with no lights then a day or two with then another three with no lights. If a fish is stressed it can be more likely to acquire ich than a healthy unstressed fish. Just my two cents.

 

[Orcrone]

Ich is a parasite. As Stuart said vitamins, garlic, etc. can boost a fish's immune system. This could help the fish fight off the parasite's attack. But I think it should be every aquarist's goal to keep the parasite out of the system rather than to just help the fish fight it off.

 

[Swim]

A important distinction needs to be drawn here. Garlic, vitamins, and other things may, indeed, improve the overall health and strengthen the immune system of fish so as to help the fish resist the parasite and/or cope with the parasite better. However, these items do not eliminate the parasite and only serve to help the fish resist or cope with the parasite.

I think that what people overlook about foods like spectrum thera +A is that the fish have to be already been eating it before an outbreak so that the fish will "taste bad/wrong" to the parasite. It does little good to feed the fish after it's already infected unless they happen to survive the initial outbreak.

 

[Stuart60611]

I think that what people overlook about foods like spectrum thera +A is that the fish have to be already been eating it before an outbreak so that the fish will "taste bad/wrong" to the parasite. It does little good to feed the fish after it's already infected unless they happen to survive the initial outbreak.

There is no scientific basis whatsoever to assert that certain foods fed to fish in any way affect how a fish tastes to the crypt parasite, nor in any way deter a parasite from attempting to attach to a fish. Many people have spred this misinformation without any scientific basis. However, there are plenty of scientific basis to assert that certain foods or vitamins, such as beta glucan or vitamin C, greatly boost the immune system response of fish.

 

[Swim]

There is no scientific basis whatsoever to assert that certain foods fed to fish in any way affect how a fish tastes to the crypt parasite, nor in any way deter a parasite from attempting to attach to a fish. Many people have spred this misinformation without any scientific basis. However, there are plenty of scientific basis to assert that certain foods or vitamins, such as beta glucan or vitamin C, greatly boost the immune system response of fish.

No scientific basis, just anecdotal information/claims by maufacturers and long time hobbyists. I tend to think there is something to it but only if you have already been feeding it beforehand and it's certainly not to be viewed as an "ich cure".

 

[Stuart60611]

No scientific basis, just anecdotal information/claims by maufacturers and long time hobbyists. I tend to think there is something to it but only if you have already been feeding it beforehand and it's certainly not to be viewed as an "ich cure".

Ya, and I think these anecdotal information claims are being confused with the scientific predicate. I can see how someone may think that garlic, for example, deters the parasites from attaching to fish because fish seem to be less affected by the parasite when fed garlic when in fact the reason fish are less affected by the parasite when fed garlic is because the garlic boosts the fishs' immunity response to the parasite. Studies have shown that garlic can improve the immune system response in animals to pathogens, but no study I am aware of has shown that garlic misleads or deters parasites from attaching to their hosts.

 

[Swim]

Ya, and I think these anecdotal information claims are being confused with the scientific predicate. I can see how someone may think that garlic, for example, deters the parasites from attaching to fish because fish seem to be less affected by the parasite when fed garlic when in fact the reason fish are less affected by the parasite when fed garlic is because the garlic boosts the fishs' immunity response to the parasite. Studies have shown that garlic can improve the immune system response in animals to pathogens, but no study I am aware of has shown that garlic misleads or deters parasites from attaching to their hosts.

Maybe someday we will get some scientific data on this and we'll know for sure. Don't want to highjack the thread if I haven't already but one thing I find interesting about systems where garlic has been a regular food ingredient is the smell coming from the skimmers is very distinctive.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Sometimes I think half of the SW hobby thinks ich is something that never goes away and just pops top life when a weaker fish is detected. If your tank doesn't have ich, and you don't introduce it, no fish in your DT can get it--regardless of its immune system's condition. If it is present in your DT; sooner later it will get almost every fish. A healthy fish may have a better chance of fighting it....for a while. The ich parasite loves to get in the gills and there is no miracle to prevent that. Properly QT everything and ich cannot ever be a problem.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Too late to edit.
Because ich is a parasite and not a disease; I've never really understood how a fish's immune system could prevent a serious attack by ich. Maybe helps with secondary infection and keeps the slime coat healthy. But given the ich parasite's love of his target's gills and the huge number of parasites in an infested tank; I think anything short of a full-blown treatment & elimination of the ich parasites in all forms will eventually lead to serious fish loss. (Hypo or copper preferred, formalin & quinine based meds also seem to work). Folks has been looking for an easier way to handle ich, and other parasites, since I can remember---sorry, there just ain't one! QT now or pay later.