something is preventing success with corals.. need help! (long post)

[jenjen]

Hello RC! Hopefully someone here can help me figure out what's goin on with my reef! I've been trying to figure this out for months, and so far the answer has eluded me.

My current tank is 180g and it's been running for almost 4 yrs. I moved the system to our current house 2 yrs ago - swapped out the sand but otherwise everything stayed the same. Prior to this tank I had a 90g bowfront for a year, and all the rock & enhabitants came from that system. I added around 100lbs of base rock when I upgraded.

The 90g was a very successful system. Everything I put in it thrived. The 180g was starting to settle in, then we moved. It has never been right since the move.

What I want to have is a softie/leathers reef. Pretty easy right? The problem is my system will not keep anything except mushrooms & leathers alive since the move. Zoanthids typically last around 3 months, then slowly fade away. Button polyps that were getting to plague levels prior to the move are down to maybe 10 polyps and those don't open properly (skirts are fully retracted). I even killed some GSP!

Fish & inverts do great - I haven't lost anything in years, not even during the move. I have a brittle star, urchin, feather duster, clam - all have been in the system since before the move (3 yrs I think). I have a large toadstool leather and a large cabbage leather that are thriving, and way too many mushrooms. Oh and some clove polyps that came in as a hitchhiker on a zoanthid frag. The zoa's are gone, but the cloves are doing well and have gone from 1 head to probably 20 very quickly.

Parameters (IO salt, RO/DI water):
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0 (sometimes creeps up to 20 max)
dKH - 8
Calcium - 470 (was well over 550, have brought down over the past 6 months)
Magnesium - 1200
SG - 1.025
Temp - 79.5 (night) - 83 (peak daytime)

Lighting (all bulbs are new within 6 months):
2x 250W MH 8 hours / day
1x 400W MH 6 hours / day
2x actinic T5 10 hours / day
moonlight

There isn't any stray current, and there isn't anything bugging/eating the corals that I can find. They all end up the same - they look great for a while, then stop opening and slowly just fade away.

I keep thinking the problem has to be something in the water, something different since I'm in a new city than before, but I can't detect anything on any test kits that I've tried.

Ideas are most appreciated!

 

[thebkramer]

what kind of fish do you have?

my first thought would be... do you have a Eunicid worm that you haven't seen?

then.. your alk should be 9-11 .. but I'm no expert so I can't say that its the reason.
mag should be around 1300 but again.. no expert...

I hope everything works out for you!!!!

 

[phenom5]

Do you run any GAC? I'm wondering if there's some serious chemical warfare going on with the leathers & shrooms that's causing problems for other corals.

 

[ACBlinky]

Have you tried taking a look with a small flashlight in the middle of the night? Nudibranchs, zoa spiders, pyramid snails, eunicid worms or other pests might be coming out at 3am to snack on your polyps :S

Not sure if the temperature fluctuation would bother certain corals and not others, but a fan and/or controller-heater combo might help keep things steady; I wouldn't be comfortable with a 3.5 degree fluctuation myself.

Also probably isn't a factor, but what's your PO4 level? If NO3 sometimes reaches 20ppm, I'm wondering if PO4 gets high as well?

 

[jenjen]

what kind of fish do you have?

my first thought would be... do you have a Eunicid worm that you haven't seen?

then.. your alk should be 9-11 .. but I'm no expert so I can't say that its the reason.
mag should be around 1300 but again.. no expert...

I hope everything works out for you!!!!

Fish list:
YWG / Pistol Shrimp pair
Osc. Clown pair
female Bangaii cardinal
Foxface
Yellow Tang
Kole Tang
2x blue/green Chromis

I know the alk & mag are low - that's the reason i've been bringing the calc down, to hopefully get the other two parameters to settle in. The current parameters are extremely stable & consistent. My research doesn't seem to show that these parameters should impact soft corals (at least not to the point of death), but I'd love to hear from someone who knows for sure.

Haven't seen any worms, crabs or other predators.

 

[jenjen]

Do you run any GAC? I'm wondering if there's some serious chemical warfare going on with the leathers & shrooms that's causing problems for other corals.

I did for a bit, with no noticeable change. I know leathers with LPS are not a good idea, but didn't think Zoa's should be affected?

 

[jenjen]

Have you tried taking a look with a small flashlight in the middle of the night? Nudibranchs, zoa spiders, pyramid snails, eunicid worms or other pests might be coming out at 3am to snack on your polyps :S

Not sure if the temperature fluctuation would bother certain corals and not others, but a fan and/or controller-heater combo might help keep things steady; I wouldn't be comfortable with a 3.5 degree fluctuation myself.

Also probably isn't a factor, but what's your PO4 level? If NO3 sometimes reaches 20ppm, I'm wondering if PO4 gets high as well?

I have spent many a night with a flashlight (my husband thinks I'm insane!). Haven't seen anything so far, but I keep looking.

The temp swing has been consistent the entire time I've had a tank. It's never been an issue before, so I had ruled it out as the culprit. In the climate I'm in the system maintains these temps naturally most of the time.

PO4 always tests zero. And to clarify, nitrates creep maybe once every 6 months, it's not frequent and they're nearly always zero. Overall the parameters are very consistent in this system.

 

[thebkramer]

I'm not saying you have a eunicid.. but if you do.. they are WONDERFUL at hiding!!!
I once went more than a year of buying then losing zoas and buttons. I was sooo confused as to why. but I kept buying them.. and they kept dying ): someone mentioned a creepy crawlie.. but I never saw one..then.. I had to switch tanks.. in the process of changing everything over.. there he was after lifting one of my LRs. EWWW!! he was about 18inches long!!! I could not believe my eyes!! I no longer have a problem keeping zoas!! yay!!!!
again.. not saying you have one.. but if nothing else seems to help with growth.. I would investigate your rocks and sand a bit more!!! there are alot of critters that like to munch on our corals :furious: maybe use a small frag as bait and wait it out one night??

Good Luck to you!! I hope its something simple!!!

 

[jenjen]

Here are 2 pics of button polyp colonies I have had for min 4 years each, that were thriving prior to moving the system (ie: I was trying to figure out how to keep them contained).

This colony is in the back of the tank and I had to shoot the pic through a cave to get a decent look at them. They used to be huge - large polyps with fairly long skirts. They were also packed close together with very little visible rock.

These ones started out in a 55g I had at the other house. It started as a frag with a few polyps, quickly grew to around 20 and has receeded to this since moving it into the 180g when we moved. Again, the skirts used to be long & sweeping. They've looked exactly like this for over a year - no growth, no further recession.

These are the only two colonies that have actually survived - these two made the move and were thriving in the old system. Anything new I add fades within around 3 months, and the zoa colonies I brought with me have not survived.

 

[jenjen]

If it is chemical warfare, would carbon help? If yes, how long would it take to see results?