Starting a planted refugium

[davidryder]

Ok, I'm trying to figure out how to set this refugium up. I got some red and black mangroves and so far this is how I have the fuge setup:

I've read that red mangroves can be completely submerged, is this true? The black mangroves are on an adjustable shelf half in water half out. The red mangroves are completely underwater in the front. I am going to put some cheato and a grass-type macro in today, I'll post some pics later.

I'm looking for some tips or suggestions for the mangroves... these are the first I've ever tried.

 

[Samala]

Well, we've got our mangroves switched up a bit. The red mangroves, Rhizophora mangle, are the long cigar shaped propagules that you have half-in and half-out of the water. The black mangroves, Avicennia germinans, are the lima bean looking propagules that you have submerged at the bottom.

Black mangroves aren't fond of being completely submerged. Its best to really have all types of mangroves - red, black or white - in an amphibious context where they can keep their roots wet and get some air on the leaves.

Where black mangroves are wild, they will plant themselves along the shoreline just a foot or two up from high tide mark. They certainly float in the ocean/bays/lagoons for days to weeks before this occurs, so in a sense, they can withstand submersion for a certain amount of time. You typically find seedlings in the seagrass wrack zone and they grow quickly in these areas of loose, sandy, wet soil that has fairly high organic content, and an anoxic sediment zone a few centimeters below the surface.

I've seen notes from hobbyists that they dont like full salinity, but that isnt what I observe from the wild. In areas I visit frequently that are a few hundred feet from an ocean inlet, these plants thrive, mixed in with red mangroves.

>Sarah

 

[graveyardworm]

Check the links in this thread.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=788426&highlight=mangrove

 

[rekn]

mangroves are also trees. when ilived in the keys i would see some as tall as 10 ft

 

[davidryder]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9531328#post9531328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Samala
Well, we've got our mangroves switched up a bit. The red mangroves, Rhizophora mangle, are the long cigar shaped propagules that you have half-in and half-out of the water. The black mangroves, Avicennia germinans, are the lima bean looking propagules that you have submerged at the bottom.

Black mangroves aren't fond of being completely submerged. Its best to really have all types of mangroves - red, black or white - in an amphibious context where they can keep their roots wet and get some air on the leaves.

Where black mangroves are wild, they will plant themselves along the shoreline just a foot or two up from high tide mark. They certainly float in the ocean/bays/lagoons for days to weeks before this occurs, so in a sense, they can withstand submersion for a certain amount of time. You typically find seedlings in the seagrass wrack zone and they grow quickly in these areas of loose, sandy, wet soil that has fairly high organic content, and an anoxic sediment zone a few centimeters below the surface.

I've seen notes from hobbyists that they dont like full salinity, but that isnt what I observe from the wild. In areas I visit frequently that are a few hundred feet from an ocean inlet, these plants thrive, mixed in with red mangroves.

>Sarah

Awesome, thanks for the info. How do you think the black mangroves would do floating until they got large enough to stand up in the shelf I have built?

The other less desirable option is to build a small shelf inside the shelf with the red mangroves to allow them to sit above water.

I'll do whatever, I just want to know the best way for them to thrive. I was even thinking of taking one of the black mangroves and planting them, as a house plant.

 

[Samala]

You could do the house plant routine, certainly. It takes several years for them to get to their full grown size (of course) and you could have it in the house for probably two or three years before it became really large.

They might do okay floating for awhile, I hadnt thought of that. They are slow growers though. I'll have a look at the saplings/seedlings here in Florida later this week and give you an idea of how fast they grow. Most of them started drifting in and getting started on soil about four months ago. So I'll measure them to get an idea.

>Sarah

 

[davidryder]

Ok, I got pretty much everything I wanted for my fuge, and I am super excited. The seagrass came today and my chaeto came yesterday

^^^i removed the shelf and put the mangroves on stilts. the shelf was a terrible idea lol

^^^shoal grass in focus there

Problems I've ran into (more than what's listed):

1) Too much flow was creating A LOT of bubbles. I put a ball valve on the return line.

2) Gurgling on the drain line. I installed a contraption to allow the bubbles to release before they went under pressure:

^^^ It's a riser tube that comes up higher than the drain to the sump, allowing air bubbles to release in this tube. I put a cotton ball in the top as a silencer.

3) I had to drill holes in the left most baffle so water wouldn't flow over the top.

4) The mangroves are going to bust out of the tank one day lol


Anyway, there is some more aquascaping I want to do... as the plants mature I will post some more pics. It's going to take some maintenance to keep any one of the plants from overtaking the rest.

I would love to see others' refugiums or hear ideas or suggestions... it's nice to think outside of my head once in a while

 

[sunfishh]

Nice looking setup

 

[davidryder]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9621797#post9621797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sunfishh
Nice looking setup

Thanks! I thought I would post some progress...


The mangroves are really taking off! There is a little browning and I think that is due to the improper acclimation that was performed.

The red mangroves haven't made a lot of progress. I am seeing some root growth but not much in the way of leaves... more updates to come!

 

[starsbravo]

Im thinking of keeping some shoal grass. How deep does the sand bed have to be??

 

[davidryder]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9688249#post9688249 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by starsbravo
Im thinking of keeping some shoal grass. How deep does the sand bed have to be??

I don't think their is a certain depth, but to cover the roots of the grass I got it had to be 2+ inches. You can always make a small pile around the grass if you don't have enough sand.

 

[graveyardworm]

Yep, a couple inches should be okay for shoal grass. You can read more about seagrasses here

 

[davidryder]

updated progress

updated progress

Wow how this tank has transformed from the first photo I posted.

<a href="http://www.phpstory.net/albums/aquarium/album/slides/042707refugium.html"><img src="http://www.phpstory.net/albums/aquarium/album/slides/042707refugium.jpg">
</a>

The shoal grass is staying alive but I'm getting the feeling I'm going to have to start dosing in order to get it to start growing. I left the entire area in front of the grass for it to grow.

The caulerpa brachypus is growing wildly and has to be trimmed fairly frequently. The chaeto has stayed about the same size. The water has cleared up completely and I decided not to use the magnum H.O.T. The mangroves shot up to where they are now pretty quickly and are now growing slowly as expected.