Starting with a dry rock cycle

[lespaul339]

So I'm not new to the hobby, but am new to starting a tank cycle by using 100% dry rock. So I thought I'd post this question here.

I started my cycle by putting a piece of raw fish fillet in my tank. It's been 3 days and I just finally started seeing ammonia show up in my test results. My question is once my ammonia level is towards it's peak, do you think it would be ok to remove the piece of dead fish or should I wait for nitrites to peak before I remove the dead fish? Or should I keep the fish in and let it rot the whole time? The reason I ask is because my tank is stinking up my house! I expected some odor but this is horrible!

My opinion is once the ammonia level peaks it would be ok to remove, but just in case I wanted to run it by you people here and get some more opinions. I don't want to do anything that will prolong my cycle.

 

[christopherjudd]

Not sure if necessary but maybe add a small live rock or sand to help the process

 

[frayedend]

You want to keep it in there to continue producing ammonia. If you take it out then you don't have anything for the bacteria to eat. Then they will die off before you have a good cycle.

Alternatively if you can get some pure ammonia (no yellow lemon stuff) you can dose ammonia rather than using the fish.

 

[ChimolaFish]

Just keep it in there to help feed the bacteria. You want it to continue breaking down and producing ammonia so the bacteria can eat it and turn it into nitrites, and then nitrites into nitrates, yada yada, the nitrogen cycle. I started my reef with all dry rock, its a good way to go if you want to make sure there's no hitchhikers.

 

[gone fishin]

I would assume you plan to start stocking once you cycle. I see no issue in removing it once your ammonia peaks. I did this the last time I started my tank a few years ago.

 

[lespaul339]

I would assume you plan to start stocking once you cycle. I see no issue in removing it once your ammonia peaks. I did this the last time I started my tank a few years ago.

Kinda my thoughts.I too don't see a problem with removing it once the ammonia peaks because after the ammonia peaks and turns to nitrites am I really gaining anything by leaving it in the tank? Seems to be a contradiction of opinions which I expected ,but I guess I'd like to hear the arguments from both sides before I make a decision.

I would plan on adding live stock right away once the cycle is complete. This tank is an upgrade tank for me. I currently have a 60 gallon with the following fish:

1-Blue Regal Tang
1-Yellow Tang
1-Blue Green Chromis
1-Banggai Cardinal
1-Dartfish
2-Ocellaris Clownfish

I plan on adding the fish slowly as to not add too much of a bio load all at once.

The tank I'm upgrading to is a 150 gallon tank (60x24x24) with a 50 gallon sump. I have 230 lbs of dry rock in this tank and sump. I'm not adding any live rock from my existing tank because it's full of aiptasia and I haven't been successful at removing them. I started 100% dry so I can control whats added to my tank. I'm tired of dealing with pests.

 

[lespaul339]

You want to keep it in there to continue producing ammonia. If you take it out then you don't have anything for the bacteria to eat. Then they will die off before you have a good cycle.

Alternatively if you can get some pure ammonia (no yellow lemon stuff) you can dose ammonia rather than using the fish.

Just keep it in there to help feed the bacteria. You want it to continue breaking down and producing ammonia so the bacteria can eat it and turn it into nitrites, and then nitrites into nitrates, yada yada, the nitrogen cycle. I started my reef with all dry rock, its a good way to go if you want to make sure there's no hitchhikers.

But once it turns to nitrites isn't the ammonia part of the process complete?

 

[gone fishin]

I would assume people leave it in there to continue to grow bacteria. Since I have no way to count bacteria colonies I remove it once the ammonia has peaked and move on down the road.

 

[uncleL]

I have always started my tanks with bottled bacteria and added two clowns that day and cycle was complete in a week. Then added 5-10lbs of live rock a week for 4 weeks, then started adding more fish.............

 

[wooden_reefer]

So I'm not new to the hobby, but am new to starting a tank cycle by using 100% dry rock. So I thought I'd post this question here.

I started my cycle by putting a piece of raw fish fillet in my tank. It's been 3 days and I just finally started seeing ammonia show up in my test results. My question is once my ammonia level is towards it's peak, do you think it would be ok to remove the piece of dead fish or should I wait for nitrites to peak before I remove the dead fish? Or should I keep the fish in and let it rot the whole time? The reason I ask is because my tank is stinking up my house! I expected some odor but this is horrible!

My opinion is once the ammonia level peaks it would be ok to remove, but just in case I wanted to run it by you people here and get some more opinions. I don't want to do anything that will prolong my cycle.

Better would have been to have some quantitative thinking and to finely chop a piece of fish flesh or shrimp flesh of the correct weight. It is messy to take decomposing flesh out and it is does not suppress anaerobic decay if the chunk is large.

About 1/3 ounce of moist flesh will give about o.3 gram of nitrogen; that will give about 3 ppm N-ammonia in 25 gals of water. 3 ppm N-ammonia is about right to start a cycle. I 'd repeat such addition in days 10 and 17.

When the number of bacteria is already high, doubling will be significant and will only take a couple of days. You will not delay cycling much by having more ammonia, unless gross excess. Both ammonia and nitrite will drop rather fast toward the tail end.

 

[DoubleM 10]

i did an all dry rock cycle and im at the end. i can add fish right now if i want.

how i did it was set all up. went to ace hardware and purchased the bottled ammonia from there.

my tank is 70gallonish. i put 5ml of it in the water. brought the ammonia to 1-2 ppm instantly. waited till it went to 0. then added it again.

i did this till the ammonia went away overnight. took about 3 weeks. much easier and more predictable.

 

[wooden_reefer]

i did an all dry rock cycle and im at the end. i can add fish right now if i want.

how i did it was set all up. went to ace hardware and purchased the bottled ammonia from there.

my tank is 70gallonish. i put 5ml of it in the water. brought the ammonia to 1-2 ppm instantly. waited till it went to 0. then added it again.

i did this till the ammonia went away overnight. took about 3 weeks. much easier and more predictable.

Bottled ammonia is good too if it does not have additives, but it is not easier.
Addition of animal protein to decay is like ghost feeding just a bit more. Why is it difficult?

It seems to me that some microbes associated with decay or its products are also developed by using decomposition of animal protein instead of ammonia. Whether this is important I can't say; I think it possibly can be.

Bottled ammonia is better if you want a sharp pulse to test to see if such a pulse of ammonia is processed quickly.

 

[DoubleM 10]

Bottled ammonia is good too if it does not have additives, but it is not easier.
Addition of animal protein to decay is like ghost feeding just a bit more. Why is it difficult?

It seems to me that some microbes associated with decay or its products are also developed by using decomposition of animal protein instead of ammonia. Whether this is important I can't say; I think it possibly can be.

Bottled ammonia is better if you want a sharp pulse to test to see if such a pulse of ammonia is processed quickly.

Its not as controllable or predictable. That makes it a little harder. That's more of what I meant in that aspect

 

[Dan_P]

Kinda my thoughts.I too don't see a problem with removing it once the ammonia peaks because after the ammonia peaks and turns to nitrites am I really gaining anything by leaving it in the tank? Seems to be a contradiction of opinions which I expected ,but I guess I'd like to hear the arguments from both sides before I make a decision.

I would plan on adding live stock right away once the cycle is complete. This tank is an upgrade tank for me. I currently have a 60 gallon with the following fish:

1-Blue Regal Tang
1-Yellow Tang
1-Blue Green Chromis
1-Banggai Cardinal
1-Dartfish
2-Ocellaris Clownfish

I plan on adding the fish slowly as to not add too much of a bio load all at once.

What you might be gaining by continually feeding ammonia is a larger bacterial community. Nitrifying bacteria grow slowly.

By adding fish slowly, you are doing the same thing as adding ammonia and extending the cycling time. Avoid the temptation to introduce fish too quickly though and monitor ammonia levels during the introduction period just to be on the safe side. Even after the introduction of the fish your biological filter will continue to grow and the diversity of the bacteria will increase.

 

[lespaul339]

Ok so people have made lots of good points in this thread. Keep the discussions coming because I think it's interesting to get everyone's point of view.

I think for now I am going to leave the dead fish in during the whole cycle. The smell can't get any worse than it is already. I am running my protein skimmer during the cycle to help break it in. It's pulling some gunk out already, so it should help with the majority of the fish flesh breaking down while my bacteria colony builds up and does the rest during the cycle.

 

[lespaul339]

It seems to me that some microbes associated with decay or its products are also developed by using decomposition of animal protein instead of ammonia. Whether this is important I can't say; I think it possibly can be.

I agree. That's why I went the dead fish route instead of just adding ammonia. To me it's a more natural process to do the fish feather than just adding pure ammonia, not saying pure ammonia can't work because it can, but personally I decided to go with a more natural process. Just a preference thing. The downside to rotting flesh is definitely the smell though. I think you were on to something with your idea of adding the flesh slowly rather than all at once.