STN possible treatment

[graha321]

I just wanted to share my experience with others who have or had similar symptoms. I started dosing vodka in my tank last March. It went very well, I got great results near 0 nitrates/phosphates and corals looked great. They were also growing at record speed (for me). I acquired some new corals in September"¦..the beginning of the end. A week or two afterwards, the tips of some of my corals were receding. I immediately thought of an alkalinity issue. That was not the case. I checked my alkalinity with at least three different test kits and all were in the range of 7-8. All other parameters were in line as well. I immediately stopped dosing vodka, did water changes, to no avail. I lost several colonies/frags and others looked terrible. However, some looked great and had not been affected at all. Finally, around December the recession had stopped and I foolishly thought I was in the clear. Several weeks went by with no recession. I began to start my vodka dosing again. Bad idea:sad2: Three weeks into the dosing, the recession started again! This really made me think that whatever was plaguing my corals was bacterial as it was fueled by a carbon source. I ran across articles that have referenced using Chloramphenicol as an antibiotic treatment. This has been going on for five months and I have had it. I'm found a Vet willing to prescribe me Chloramphenicol and I am about to take the plunge and try it. Worse case, I just start over, which is where this is headed anyways.

I am planning to use the dosage referenced in this article: http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/c_bingman_040697.html I have a 160g total water volume (roughly 600 liters). The dosage is between 1500mg-3000mg of Chloramphenicol dissolved in ethanol. Right now I'm leaning towards the higher end of the dosage scale. I'll be picking up the prescription tomorrow and try start dosing tomorrow evening. I've taken before pictures that I will try to post later tonight. If anyone has any experience dosing this antibiotic, please share any thoughts. Thanks!

 

[graha321]

This is an example of the corals that are being affected. They get a brownish look to them. I took a sample and looked at it under the microscope at work. It appears that the brownish substance is the corals zooxanthella being expelled. At least that's my best guess, I'm an immunologist, not a microbiologist.

 

[BradR]

Wow. Good luck. Be sure to have some extra water ready or someplace to move stuff if things go south quickly.

 

[graha321]

I dissolved 3000mg of chloramphenicol in ethanol and dosed it in the tank and turned off the skimmer. It's been three hours (still early). There is no indication that anything is stressed, corals aren't sliming and fish are fine. I'll continue to update as it goes.

 

[graha321]

Last night was day three of treatment and I turned the skimmer back on. I never saw a bacterial bloom that was referenced in Bingman's article. Nothing has appeared stressed out, corals or fish. I also trimmed off any dead areas on the corals and have not seen the tissue recede any further, time will tell. I plan to do a water change today and restart the carbon filter.

 

[veloboy]

Interesting article. How is everything looking today?

 

[spsal23]

tagging along in the thread hope it works

 

[graha321]

Everything is doing well. It's still too early to tell what the long term outcome will be. The areas where I trimmed off the dead tissue seem to be healing over with new, healthy tissue. There's still nothing that seems to adversely affected. I added some Microbacter7 yesterday after a large water change. I'll keep updating as it goes.

 

[itachi]

very interesting tell me how it goes. I have almost the exact problem to how you described . I've been scratching my head over it for a couple months now and i had a theory that was similar. I've sent my water for testing several times to verify my test results as well and nothing seamed out of wack while testing .

 

[veloboy]

So you treated once for three days and then did a large water change? What percentage water change did you do?

I can't remember what the article suggested...are you planning one treatment or multiple or does it depend on how things look?

 

[jcal]

Had the same experience dosing vodka. I must have over done it and had a few corals stn on the base...did a 50 percent water change within 2 days then another after a week. The stn stopped. New growth growing over. I also have stopped dosing vodka.

 

[graha321]

So you treated once for three days and then did a large water change? What percentage water change did you do?

I can't remember what the article suggested...are you planning one treatment or multiple or does it depend on how things look?

I treated once and let it go with no skimmer for three days. On day 3 I turned the skimmer back on and on day 4 I did a 25% water change (not too huge).

I just did one treatment, the article doesn't mention multiple doses. I'm going to see how things are looking.

 

[graha321]

Had the same experience dosing vodka. I must have over done it and had a few corals stn on the base...did a 50 percent water change within 2 days then another after a week. The stn stopped. New growth growing over. I also have stopped dosing vodka.

I usually thinking of "over doing" vodka in the context of stripping your tank too clean. That was definitely not the case for me.

I haven't decided if I'm going to try vodka again. I loved the look. I think I might give biopellets a try...

 

[redfishsc]

I had a very bad situation with my Montipora species. Every monti I had started dying (2 colors of cap, 2 colors of digitata, and green elkhorn) and they very slowly died off over a 6 month period. Very slowly.

Meanwhile I had started dosing Vitamin C as a carbon source and for overall coral health (as per the thread here on RC about it). I was dosing the Sodium Ascorbate powder from I-herb.com

After a few months I started feeling confident that I could up the dosage to really bring down phosphates, and my dosing went from 1/4 tsp (in 45g system) 3X per day to dosing 1/2 tsp 3X per day.


About that time, all the montipora made a dramatic comeback.

I cannot say for certainty what it was. I suspect the VC in high doses helped, but I have no idea how, other than reducing nutrients (phosphate went from 0.1 down to around 0.05, nitrate was always 0.0ppm).

I also cannot say it was the VC that did it. But I continue to dose 1/4 tsp, but 2X per day now (3X if I feed heavy on any given day). Still getting very, very good monti growth.

This is an example of the corals that are being affected. They get a brownish look to them. I took a sample and looked at it under the microscope at work. It appears that the brownish substance is the corals zooxanthella being expelled. At least that's my best guess, I'm an immunologist, not a microbiologist.

That, too me, looks more like a pest algae that is feeding on the leftover organics from dead parts of the coral. I got this on several SPS that my red goniopora nuked one night when it extended polyps 2X longer than normal. I suspect it's either cyano of some sort, or perhaps as you mentioned, dinoflagellates that are growing externally and feeding off of dead tissue.


I'm sure that in my case it's not a continuous expulsion of zooxanthellae, since the ORA green birdsnest that got "goni-nuked" is regrowing fine but there are still small tufts of the same brown stuff growing on the dead tips... and has been that way for 3 weeks. It's regrown quite well and in a week or two it should look like it did before being stung.

 

[graha321]

It's been three weeks since I dosed the antibiotic. My tank is doing much better. The areas I trimmed are healed over, and there's no signs of any recession. My alk/calc consumption has gone back up as well, yeah!!! Even my skimmer is working better and pulling more out. Not sure how that's related, but I'll take it. I'll try to post some pictures this week.

 

[beeker]

I used to daily dose vodka but went to dosing 2 days a week instead of everyday because to me Vodka and Amino's will hit a point of saturation causing the issue's you got, the only way to solve the problem is to quite dosing altogether

if you do a slight Vodka dose of 2-3 times a week your system will react better, it's not to say that RTN and STN won't happen but they will have less of a chance to happen if you aren't dosing the Carbon daily and are only doing it 2-3 days a week, which is what i've done for the last 4 months or so

I'm upgrading to a 200g so i'm stopping the dosing on my 29g as of this week, the only bad things i've noticed with this dosing method is i did have a small outbreak of cyano, though i'm not sure if that is the Vodka or the Amino's causing the Cyano, but as of right now i'm off the dosing schedule but when i restart i will only be dosing 2-3 days a week and no more

 

[graha321]

I used to daily dose vodka but went to dosing 2 days a week instead of everyday because to me Vodka and Amino's will hit a point of saturation causing the issue's you got, the only way to solve the problem is to quite dosing altogether

if you do a slight Vodka dose of 2-3 times a week your system will react better, it's not to say that RTN and STN won't happen but they will have less of a chance to happen if you aren't dosing the Carbon daily and are only doing it 2-3 days a week, which is what i've done for the last 4 months or so

Do you get your nitrates/phosphates down low enough with this dosing schedule? Have you tried daily dosing with smaller amounts?

I'm currently running biopellets to see if I can avoid it all together.

 

[justinr2k]

I know this post is OLD, but I am going through an extreme case of RTN with almost all of my SPS corals. Monti caps took the first hit, now acros, monti digis, etc. I have some Chloramphenicol on hand but am very hesitant to use it due to the risks involved. I am curious as to how to make the water safe after treatment. I have about 200 gallons of total water volume. After dosing the tank, will activated carbon remove the antibiotic from the system? I just want to know how long it will be before I feel safe putting my hands/arms back into the tank. Thanks!

 

[organism]

I just fixed a similar issue with dosing reagent grade potassium nitrate. Turns out nitrates at/near 0 was not good for my tank. After a couple of weeks everything had turned around, crazy difference.

 

[justinr2k]

I've got my chloramphenicol ready to dose, but I'm very hesitant. I could lose my corals and live with it, but not my fish. I guess I could get a bunch of water ready and do a big water change if the crap hits the fan. I'm working with approximately 200 gallons. The most I can have on hand is around 125 gallons. I assume a 50% water change would be beneficial as an emergency. I'm waiting on a PM reply from @graha321 about his long term results or problems. My nitrates are around 10ppm right now, so I know that's not my problem.