Stocking question:

JammyBirch

JammyBirch

Aquaria Engineering
My 25g, 35g total with sump, reef tank has been up and running for ~1.5 years now and is flourishing. I'd like to add something to help me manage the sand bed though.

Current tank inhabitants:
1 Cherub Pygmy Angel
1 Royal Gramma
2 Osc clowns
1 Serpent Brittle star

I'd like to add a small sand sifting goby, but wanted to get others opinions on here. i guess my concern is the tank is stocked well and cannot handle another fish.

Let me know what you guys think, the tank is 18"x18"x18", and is heavily stocked with LPS and SPS coral as well.
 
The tank is currently overstocked so I wouldn't add any more fish without removing something.

Why not a couple nassarius snails that will stay in the sand bed and rummage around eating whatever is in it?
 
username in use said:
The tank is currently overstocked so I wouldn't add any more fish without removing something.

Why not a couple nassarius snails that will stay in the sand bed and rummage around eating whatever is in it?
Click to expand...

I have a few nassarius snails they do OK but not enough. Overstocked? you really think so?
 
JammyBirch said:
Overstocked? you really think so?
Click to expand...

Yup. 25g tank would be fine with the pair of clowns and small gobie on their own.

With the angel and gramma they should be in something more like a 40 breeder as a minimum tank size.


What's going on with your sand specifically that needs to be addressed?
 
I don't have any problems with it, i'd like to not have to vacuum it at all. i have a few low flow areas in the back that are a little dingy looking and are hard to reach. It would be nice to have a sifter to clean it for me.

I don't know man, i think it's up for debate on the overstocked idea. i guess my question is what would i see in terms of fish behavior that would lead me to think the tank was overstocked?
 
Definitely too small for that cherub angel too.

If you remove the angel and add a goby I think you'd be OK. Depending on filtration.
 
username in use said:
Not really.
Click to expand...

Lol...what are the signs? Pretty simple question, the answer is not "because live aquaria said so"...

Nothing is stressed, nothing is aggressive, nitrates are never above 5ppm. I have to try to keep it that high for the corals. To each there own, I'm not overstocked but I'm not going to add a goby yet.
 
The overall bio load seems manageable to me. My only concern with your fish is the angel. They have a tendency to suddenly go rouge when kept in a tank under at least 70 gallons from the stress of not having enough room. You may be fine for a year or two, but most likely it is eventually going to get very aggressive. I think a smaller golby will be fine and clowns usually will not bother them. Are your clowns laying eggs yet? They may also become problematic once they do, mine are fine with some fish (they never seem to care at all about my Kole Tang but will not let my Flame Angel or Purple Tang anywhere near their nest). Once they do lay eggs they usually stake out about a 30 gallon chunk of tank which doesn't leave room for any fish they do not like to hide.
 
Hey Jammy, hate to agree, but 18" square is small for the Angel. This is all subjective of course, but really that would be like you living in a 8'x8' room - you could survive, but it wouldn't be fun: ) You are right that Live Aquaria is not a reliable source for min. fish tank size - since they want to sell as many fish as possible to aquarists with the widest range of tank sizes. I would AT LEAST DOUBLE any of their recommendations to get a minimum tank size for a fish.
 
Just my opinion but when people say "it's like living in an x by x area" I think that is silly because in reality we have no idea what it's like. Any fish in any tank is like telling a person they can never leave a particular area. That area could be an 8 x 8 room or it could be a 10,000 square foot compound sitting on 50 acres of land.

I think years of experiences have created a range of opinions on what size is suitable for which fish. I for one try to respect these opinions when making my choices. So I for one wouldn't put a blue tang in my 80g and wouldn't put that angel in the OPs tank. But I also wouldn't make up an analogy that I have no idea whether that's true or not.

We have to remember a couple of things. A lot of the fish we buy are small and may seem to do ok in a particular tank. So try to respect the years of experiences and the majority "expert" opinions on these sizes. But I think there are people who could have success with a fish in a tank smaller than these limits. If you test these limits keep an eye on behaviors of the fish. As they grow if they show added aggression or stress it's probably best to find them a more suitable home.
 
Hey Marchillo, just trying to bring home the point that living in a small area is not ideal. I'm not sure the point you are trying to make, since my analogy based on my opinion is relevant and sound: I'd much rather live in a 10,000 foot compound and 50 acres than an 8x8 foot room - wouldn't you? LOL.

As an avid diver, I do try to give as much space as possible for these amazing fish we are usually taking from the wild, after seeing them there. Everyone has a different opinion and comfort zone with this, you are right - part of that is experience, part of that is hopefully at least some logic based on a particular fish and its health and size. We can infer quite a lot about what a fish would "prefer" in captivity, meaning what would be most healthy for it, based on its lifestyle in the wild (territoriality, swimming/feeding behavior, etc.) We are always making educated guesses which turn into opinions.
 
My point is that these analogies are just made up.

Yes I'd rather live in the latter. Although I'd rather be able to leave those 50 acres as well which all captive fish don't have the ability to do.

So I think it's ok to say stuff like - in my experience those fish can't be kept in that sized tank because I've had one in a 40g or I've read 10 various sources that all recommend 55g or more. I just think those analogies are bogus. If he had that angel in a 75g tank what would that be like him living in a 24 x 24 room? That is 3 times the size of an 8 x 8. Just like a 75g is 3x the size of a 25g tank.

I'm not disagreeing with the assessment of his tank being too small for that fish. I actually have no idea. I can only go by research since I've never owned that fish before.

I personally think liveaquaria does a reasonable job with their recommendations but it's always best to read as many trusted sources as possible, make the best decision you can, and make adjustments based on what is happening within your own tank.
 
No disrespect is meant by the way. I'm just expressing my opinion on these types of analogies that I've read 100 xs. Heck I may have an old post out there doing the same thing. But as I've thought about this more recently in reality I don't think these analogies hold water. See what I did there. :beer:
 
Of course analogies are made up - that's what makes them analogies : ) Ok, so you agree with my assessment, but you don't like my analogy. That's cool, I can respect that. I can't promise I will only use marine-based analogies or metaphors in the future, but I will totally try!

Seriously, I was just trying to illustrate how it would suck to live in a small room (tank) - that's all. And again, you would rather live in a 24x24 room than a 8x8 room, right? If you are ever in Cali Marchillo, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk square footage : )
 
Entacmaea said:
Of course analogies are made up - that's what makes them analogies : ) Ok, so you agree with my assessment, but you don't like my analogy. That's cool, I can respect that. I can't promise I will only use marine-based analogies or metaphors in the future, but I will totally try!

Seriously, I was just trying to illustrate how it would suck to live in a small room (tank) - that's all. And again, you would rather live in a 24x24 room than a 8x8 room, right? If you are ever in Cali Marchillo, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk square footage : )
Click to expand...

As long as it's a pint versus bottled beer. More is better...
 
Ya I understand where everyone is coming from, my point is there are a lot of misleading and incorrect rules of thumb in this hobby. I'm looking for the fish to tell me they are unhappy and that has not happened. Just so everyone knows the"Angel" is a Pygmy cherub, it's about 1.5"-2" long, they are tiny, this isn't an emperor here.

The water quality, bio filter and temperment of the fish is very good. I'm not worried about it in the least. Thanks for all of the responses.
 
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