Sulfur denitrator flowrate question

[mavgi]

i didn't look on the date ..... but happy to read you solve the problem :lol:

i start with one reactor and it wasn't good enough then i add the other one and it's work perfect .

same as you i need to adjust it to every few days .


i have in my 120 gallon :

4 Angel
3 Tangs
3 wrasse
2 Anthias
2 Damsels
2 Clown
2 Mandarine
5 shrimps

feed very havy 2 time a day + 2 clips of seaweeds nitrate never go over then 5ppm and i keep it like this if i want i can go to 0.00ppm PO4 also 0.00 ppm also keep 10-15% water change every week ,my fish look fat and colorful the tank look clean and the water spark.

 

[home_alone]

Nitrites not Nitrates for the first 40 days.

Nitrites not Nitrates for the first 40 days.

I don't know where my brain was when I wrote that but there is little point in testing nitrates for the first 40 days bringing your reactor online. The reactor breaks nitrates to nitrites and then feeds on the nitrites.

Watch your Nitrites like a hawk. They are much more toxic and they are the key to increasing flow through the reactor. You MUST keep your flow low enough that nitrites stay at zero. Grow your flow only fast enough that NO nitrites get through the reactor. Nitrates will fall but watch the nitrites.

This reactor is the best thing I have EVER done to a reef tank. Coral growth is so good at absolute zero nitrates.

I love the Seachem Nitrite & Nitrate test kit. It is very low range. Perfect for this.

Sorry for that earlier stupid post.

 

[delphinus]

I actually had a problem with the sulfates interfering with the nitrite test readings? I was confused by the nitrite readings off the chart for weeks on end, until someone (in another thread on RC, I think it's in the main forum) suggested to me that the sulfates interfere with nitrite test kits ??

So maybe Seachem doesn't get the interference whereas the Salifert (what I was using at the time) does?

 

[home_alone]

They did not interfere with my Seachem test kit. I thought once they had but I had turned up my flow rate too high through the reactor and I had climbing nitrites. That is when I researched and really understood that part of how the reactor gets rid of the nitrates was turning nitrates back into the nitrites that the sulfur feeding bacteria was consuming. If the process does not get finished in the reactor you end up with high nitrate water making lots of nitrites. I cranked down my flow rate some and all my output was nitrite free within a few hours and I resumed my every other day slow rise in my flow rate with lots of checking for nitrites. Within 50 days my nitrates were at undetectable as under .02ppm and undetectable nitrites as under .01ppm as per the Seachem test kit.

 

[BLockamon]

Salifert has no issues with sulfate. I use them, and my nitrates test at 0.2--0.5 ppm. One thing to consider is that for some test kits (Salifert included), a little nitrite will read as lots of nitrate. So, you might be getting some, but incomplete, nitrate reduction.

Also, don't worry about the nitrite. Nitrite is only toxic in freshwater, not saltwater. (Don't argue with me, check out the Chemistry forum for Randy's discussion.)

I am running a DIY unit with about 1 gallon of No-NO3, which is a mixture of the Caribsea sulfur and ARM. My system is about 120 gallons, and I now think I have too much media. I can't get my ORP above -375 and have a sulfur smell, even with the flow as a steady stream (I know, you hate me ). It is also really hitting my alk.

Anyway, I would think your volume of media would be just fine. Just a few suggestions:
-- make sure that you aren't getting air sucked in through any fittings (recirc pump inlet) or the feed line
-- try cutting off feed for a few days and just let the water circulate in the denitrator
-- then, restart at 1 drop / second
-- once outlet nitrates are 0, increase another drop per second and wait
-- you should eventually be able to get up to about 1 mL / second

Based on my experience, it should already be working unless you are getting air in somehow.

Hope you figure it out.

 

[delphinus]

I've been running it on my tank now since the first week of May, and .. well .. it does seem that after about 5 days or so, I'll get air in there. I'm not sure how it's happening, but I can shake the reactor and the media will explode with bubbles. I'm pretty sure it's not nitrogen and I don't really ever get a strong sensation of that sulfur smell (weird? I don't know? And I actually have a bit of a sensitive nose to most smells so I don't know what's up with me not being able to smell it).

Anyhow, as a result, it seems the cycle gets incomplete. Last time I checked the nitrate output of the reactor it was around 15 (tank water around 30). It will get down to zero if it can go bubble-incident-free for enough days but it just does seem now that I'm getting air in somehow.

I wish I could figure out a good way to feed pump this thing. I've tried just using the recirc pump inlet pressure to suck water but it eventually vapour locks. Right now I have an Aqualifter pumping into the recirc pump intake with an irrigation dripline on the output of the aqualifter to dial down the flow (and free flow out on the effluent of the reactor). Problem with this is it's still not consistent, I have to open the valve and dial it back down every couple of days (and I never get it the same flowrate again after). I've tried putting the irrigation valve on the effluent but the reactor could not handle the pressure, I had leaks like crazy through the gaskets.

 

[BLockamon]

Just a few suggestions based on my experience.

1) I would not restrict the flow at the inlet but rather at the outlet. Let the Aqualifter pressurize the system to its full discharge pressure (which isn't that much anyway). That's how I do it and it works great.

2) Some calcium reactors have the effluent coming off a valve right at the pump discharge. If yours does too, don't use it. If you do, you can drip out water faster than the Aqualifter can put it in if it clogs or something. This caused me to vapor lock mine on several occasions. One time I came home from being out-of-town a few days and the reactor was only half full of water (and the Eheim had burned out ).

3) I recommend having the outlet from the sulfur chamber being at the highest point of the chamber. That way you know the sulfur chamber is always full.

 

[delphinus]

Ok, hmmm, thanks.

I have the water coming in, coming in just before the pump intake. So the recirc pump is also working to draw water in using the pump suction (most of the intake though is coming from the top of the reactor).

I was definitely losing water through the gaskets when I tried having the unit pressurized. The second stage (where I have just regular ARM reactor media) was particularly bad. I'm not sure why it couldn't handle the pressure but I wasn't able to tighten the flange bolts anymore without distressing the nylon bolts themselves. Maybe I need to lubricate my gasket or something.

This is hard to describe so bear with me. As this is a converted calcium reactor, I have a recirc line at the top of the flange on the first stage and also a John Guest valve. Originally when the reactor was downflow, the JG fitting was the exit to the second stage. I currently just have the JG closed off altogether and am using the recirc line now as the exit to the second stage. I could just tap off the pump inlet line, and have the pump feed go into the JG fitting, that way I'm not overfilling the reactor based on having the recirc pump suck the water in, in addition to the aqualifter pump pushing.

I guess I'll figure this out eventually .. thanks for the suggestions!

 

[BLockamon]

I'm having a little bit of trouble picturing the setup (maybe a picture would help, no pun intended).

One question, are you recirculating both chambers? I'd recommend only recirculating the sulfur chamber and just letting the outlet flow through the second (ARM) chamber.

If the gasket won't hold water under pressure, you probably either need to add some silicone grease or there is a cut or burr on the o-ring or the sealing surface. Reactors should be able to handle all the pressure the Aqualifter can put out.

You might want to consider using the JG fitting as the exit again. That way any gas will be vented out. Without a picture, I don't have any more ideas.

Hope you get it worked out.

 

[snadaud]

Hi Delphinus !

I think it is quite probable that your gas bubbles are actualy nitrogen.

What makes you think they are not ?

Nitrogen is not supposed to have any smell at all, and it should be present in the chamber as a by product of the NO3 that is being "decomposed".

I've had a similar set up for about 2 years and I'm very happy with it.
I can overfeed as much as I want and my NO3 are always<5mg/l of NO3- which is abt<1mg/l of No3-N.

I started using sulphur when I bought a new No3 test kit because I was at a loss. All my parameters were good but I had problem algae and very poor (or inexistant) coral growth. After changing my No3 test kit (previous one read 0), they turned out to be > 110mg No3-.

My sulphur denitrator has brought them and kept them to under <1mg/l of No3-N since.

My tanks is about 125G and I have abt 1/2 G of sulfur in the reactor. Apparently it is not set up the same way as yours though.

Mine is fed by a derivation of the main overflow (with a removable first stage physical filter of bioballs and wide cell foam which I intended to clean regularly but still have never done at this time 2 years later).

This goes to a first canister with approximately 2 liters of sulfur beads. This canister has an open air purge higher than the level of the water inside so that the extra N can go out while the liquid stays in the circuit, and another outlet which brings the water to a second canister.

This second canister is airtight and has an outlet which brings the water to the refugium. It also have 1 extra inlet and outlet plumbed on a a canister filet filter filled with aragonite.

The idea is that most of the water coming out of the sulfur canister will be circulated many times in the aragonite material which would help counterbalance the acidity with alk and Ca, and also that any oxygen possibly remaining from the trip through sulfur would be used by bacterias in the aragonite filter, thus turning it into a second denitratation filter+small calcium reactor.

The water coming out of that was still lower in alk and Ca than the incomming tank water but I don't remember by how much.

I did calculate that a long time ago but since I'm supplying alk and Ca with a dosing pump, I just change the pumping time to keep stable levels and I've stopped measuring these levels out of the reactor.

My unit is mostly DIY, and with all due respect to Blockamon I will never again restrict the flow at the outlet. Maybe you can get away with that with a well engineered and commercially built unit, but if you try that with a diy you will end up with leaks everywhere and possibly even a major failure.

Don't despair and good luck !

Once you have it dialed in a sulphur reactor really allows you to overfeed your tank to incredible extenses wthout any problems.

I honestly believe that if you also have a good system to take care of PO4 at the same time, and of course you keep an eye on pH alk and Ca, your tank will be pretty muck unsinkable.

 

[klasiksb]

I could not get my unit to seal, and I finally put a bead of silicone in the o-ring groove, set the oring in and let it cure. Works like a champ now.

I have a Mag 2 as the recir. pump, pulling water from the lid and pushing it into the bottom. On the intake side of the pump I put a 'T' with a RO line running to the tank upstairs which feeds the unit. Then just an RO line out the lid in the center for the effluent. I have 1 container of the Carib-sea LSM media, but have room for more which i'll eventually get.

So, finally got it started today and tanks NO3 is 50 with a pinpoint nitrate meter. Going to let the unit run wide open for 24hours before slowing to 1 drip per second.

Here's a crude pic of the unit.

 

[snorvich]

For those whose nitrates reach zero . . . what feeds the reactor on an ongoing basis? Does any one with a reef tank actually reach a nitrate level of zero?

 

[BLockamon]

Well, I've been running mine full-bore for several months. I measure nitrate of 0.2-0.5 on the Salifert kit. For nitrate levels this low, supplemental feeding of the bacteria MAY be necessary. For sulfur denitrators, the sulfur beads themselves are the food. You can also use vodka for alcholol-based denitrators.

Some people are successful without any supplemental feedings at all (for example coil denitrators). I suspect, that the bacteria colony dies off to rather low levels as nitrates drop. This means that a fast increase in tank nitrates (e.g., something big dies) will likely take some time for the bacteria to re-establish themselves and bring the spike down.

 

[dragon_slayer]

Any biological de-nitrator is self regulating, when tank NO3 levels decrease so do the bacteria (die off from lack of food) and as the tank levels increase they repopulate, it's a never ending self regulating Natural process.

kc