Sump, Skimmer, & Lighting Question for my 300g tank

[Black Mammoth]

I plan on doing a 300g tank with the dimensions of 96x30x25. I was talking to the potential tank builder last night about it and I have a few questions.

I'm trying to run the tank with out a chiller. He asked me if I wanted 3 or 4 holes for the lights. He advised me on 3 250MHs if I want to keep the tank cool. I might be able to keep it cool with 4 as well. My question is how many of you are running 3 MHs on a 8ft long tank? Should I go with 3 or 4?

Also, he asked me about my sump size. I told him I was thinking about doing a 75g. It seems that a lot of people are running 75g. He recommended a 125g sump. I agree with him that it would be nicer, but I'm not sure if it is necessary. I will have 2 overflows coming off the the tank for somewhere between 1000 - 1200gph. I have a 18" long weir for the overflow on the back side. If I keep the water 1/2" above the weirs on a tank this size I'm not sure if the sump is large enough to hold the water that will drain back during a power outage/shutdown.

Finally the last question. I mentioned that I planned on going with a ATI Bubble Master 250 and he thought it was undersized. It is rated for 500g and I see some of you guys running that on your 300 - 400g systems. Do you think it is sufficient? I really don't want to spend the money on a Deltec or similar priced skimmer at this moment.

What do you guys think?

 

[ricks]

Your lighting, circulation and skimming, depends with what you are going to keep. I keep SPS in my 96" x 36" x 36" 500 gallon. I run (6) 400 watt 20K radiums with HQI, along with (4) 160 watt VHO actinic and (4) mix 96watt PC.

I would never think about running any large SPS system without a chiller. You are just looking for headaches down the road.

Get as large a sump that you can fit into your space. Remember the more water the more stable your system will run..

I feel you can never have a skimmer that's to large. Skimmer manufactures always over rate the capacity of their skimmers.

Lastly, large reefs and not wanting to spend money, don't go together very well...

Happy Reefing

 

[reef_only]

My tank dimensions are exactly the same as yours; I have 4 x 250Mhs; but I think I would have liked it shorter (than 96) and more width (more than 25) but unfortunately my space fits better with the current dimensions. I think 3 x 250Mhs is short for SPS; but it would depend on what you keep.

What is the temperature of the fish room that makes you think you won't need chiller? it is hardly above 80F all year around where I live and still I don't know how people usually can live w/o chiller on large system; maybe they have central air conditioning which keeps the room very cool. I saw people use ice to cool the small tank but it's not practical to do for large tank.

I would go with 125G sump and fuge combo if space is not your problem; not for your water overflow during power outage, but for phosphate/nitrate reduction; it would give enough time for your fuge to observe the nitrate; unless you are willing to change water regularly (which is pain and costly too). for large tank; big sump/fuge and strong skimmer will save you the headaches in the long run; I wish I could have space for that size of sump; though I have strong skimmer and very good water flow but still I can only afford very few hardy SPS.

 

[tbittner]

I don't think three 250w MH's is going to be enough, unless you want to leave some areas for softies. I think that would be too much of a spread.

Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to go with the 125g sump? I also think it would be best if you had at least 1500 gph through the sump (5x tank size).

As far as the skimmer, the ratings that manufacturers place on skimmers is if you don't have any fish. At least, that seems to be the case. If it's rated for a 500g system then it's probably good for a 150g to 200g system. It depends on the stocking level. But it would most likely do an adaquate job. I have a Euro-Reef RS-250 in my system and I have 570g total volume (not including my 450 tank I'm setting up) and it does a good job. I don't have any issues with keeping the nitrates down < 10. I have two aquariums in this system, a 120g reef and a 150g predator and they both circulate through the same sump.

I did just buy another RS-250 though to add to my skimmer tub before I start running water from/to the 450 through the sump.

 

[Black Mammoth]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I plan on keeping a mixed reef. I'm not trying to keep it cheap, but then again I don't want to go overboard. I don't want to spend the money on a Deltec, because I think they are overpriced. I know that their skimmers are great, but it has been my experience that it isn't the biggest bang for your buck; at least on a 90g. Maybe the bigger tanks are different. This observation was made after seeing many skimmers on a 90g. But it sounds like you guys are saying you don't think the ATI Bubble Master 250 will be up to par.

My fish room already has AC. I also have a 6" duct running to the outside of the house. All I need to do is put a humidistat and fan on the duct. There are several reasons why I don't want a chiller. One, I have seen and heard large tanks running without them. So my thought is why deal with the energy and heat issues with a chiller if I can design a tank not to use one? I'm an engineer, so these kind of issues intrigue me and I take them as a challenge. The goal is to have a nice tank, but setting this up is also something fun to me as well.

As for keeping down the heat, I hear that the Lumenarc Minis with the 175w 14k Iwasaki's have great PAR and would be great. Also, remember my tank will only be 24" tall. Honestly, I was thinking that I would go with 4 250MHs, until someone suggested only using 3. I don't know too much about MHs, so I'm still learning. I'm a T5 guy. I remember 3 years ago people saying you can't keep SPS with T5s. Ah the memories

As for the sump, I no particular reason on saying a 75g. I had just seen several people on here using that and Glass Cages also recommended it as the sump size. I was thinking about having 3 drains instead of 2 for the overflow. These items aren't set in stone. The 75g works out a bit better because it is smaller. The room I have isn't exactly large. I know that the more water you have the more stable your system will be. But I'm not sure how much I buy in to it with respects to the sump. The drainage is more of my concern than the stability. I like the larger sumps just for the simple fact that you have more working room.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[saltyfishy123]

Now, i would say it all comes done to preference, My tanks height is 24", I run 2x 250watt Hamilton 14k bulbs, it lights my entire tank, but even on a small tank i have i am thinking i am going to need to buy a chiller. I would personally go with an SPS only system, and if you would go on that path, 3x 400 watt would be just awesome, and even if you do mixed 400 watt would be really nice. You should try to get a chiller since who knows if your AC dies in the summer, you never know.. And plus its not like the chiller is running non stop, it turns on and off and you get some type of aqua controller you can record temperature fluctuations.

For your sump, like they said above, bigger the better! You will always have room to expand to larger equipment, and a fuge is always nice. :rollface: And if you are willing to spend the cash on a bubble king or bubble master, i would probobaly spend the extra cash on a Deltec since they have an amazing reputation, and you wont regret it down the road. But dont forget to get Tunze wavebox and there streams, those things are wild !!! :lol:

Good luck!

 

[tbittner]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the chiller until you see how the temp runs during the summer. They are easy enough to add into your system after the fact.

I've also seen some spectacular SPS reefs with nothing but T5's. The guy I'm thinking of even had some awesome clams sitting on the substrate, he's had them for a couple years, and his tank is 24" tall.

 

[JStorey]

I have a BM 250 on my 300 gallon with a heavy bioload and it does a great job. Just my opinion from personal experience for what its worth.

 

[Black Mammoth]

Thanks for the wonderful input guys. Yeah, for me there is about $1000 difference between the Bubble Master and a Deltec I plan on using 4 Tunze 610x's I got that bit of advice from Roger. I have another Tunze if I need it. I might run the tank without a chiller in the summer and see how it does. I also forgot to mention that the tank is in my basement. But the proof is in the pudding....so we'll see. There is an excellent point about the chiller not necessarily running all of time. So at night and if the AC ever gets kicked off, it might be a good backup.

Right now procuring a tank has been my most difficult problem...that should be the easiest part LOL. I just don't get it when someone says they have a tank for sale that they never call or email you back. Then a few weeks you hear back from them and then they fall off the face of the Earth. Weird...I just had the same problem while motorcycle shopping.

I think the 400w is overkill. I think it would fry my corals I think I would have to raise them quite a bit. I might as well go with the 250s. But then again I don't know too much about MHs.

 

[ricks]

With (4) 6100 in a 300 gallon you won't have enough flow for SPS anyway, so go with the 250 watt bulbs. Also I think your mistaken if you think your house AC will cool a 300 gallon system.. I have SPS 12" below (6) 400's on HQI, and they grow over 1"+ a month.

Good Luck keep us posted..

 

[tbittner]

Do what I did, buy Solaris'. No heat worries, WAY lower electric bill, no bulb changes to worry about, change the blueness with the touch of a button, and an awesome controller built in to it to boot!

 

[ricks]

Can you post some pictures of the lighting?? I would like to see the color and growth. They sound like a good deal, I've never seen any on a tank...

 

[saltyfishy123]

I don't necessarily think it would be overkill, i have a friend who runs dual 400 watt 20k bulbs over his 120 gallon SPS reef... But he does have to run a chiller alot But that Bubble master would be sweet, i have no yet read a bad review about it. But about the chiller, its always good to have one in handy. Even on my reef i just upgraded lights to 250 and im seeing the temperature go up and im worried that it will get even higher in the summer, and since you tanks in the basement I would assume that it doesn't get very hot down there. A went to take out humity would always help. But honestly I would think that it all depends on what your budget is, i would throw in a wavebox into your tank. And don't forget to make a thread of your build, hoping to see how it goes

 

[Black Mammoth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12478138#post12478138 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
With (4) 6100 in a 300 gallon you won't have enough flow for SPS anyway, so go with the 250 watt bulbs. Also I think your mistaken if you think your house AC will cool a 300 gallon system.. I have SPS 12" below (6) 400's on HQI, and they grow over 1"+ a month.

Good Luck keep us posted..

Initially I was going to go with 2 6200s and 2 6100s. I posted in the Tunze forum and Roger and another vendor suggested just 4 6100s for the tank. I was a bit surprised, but then again it is 40x turnover. What would you suggest for a Tunze setup? 6 6100s? Wow you have SPS only 12" from the bulb on a 400w? That's interesting. Like I said, I'm a T5 guy. I do have a 175MH on my 55g prop tank. I have to move my corals about 8" below the fixture or they start to bleach. But then again I may not be acclimating them slow enough before moving them up.

Oh, I fully agree that I may not be able to get away with a chiller. It is my goal to get away with it I think it is an interesting challenge. Especially since there are a few people by me that are doing it. I'm not saying I will be successful, but I would like to try.

I will keep everyone posted. As soon as I can procure a tank, I'll start a new thread. I might end up going with Aquarium Obsessed. They seem like pretty good guys over there.

 

[Xeroxman]

So what did you finally chose?? Or I might have missed it.. Deltec or ER?

 

[tbittner]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12478252#post12478252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
Can you post some pictures of the lighting?? I would like to see the color and growth. They sound like a good deal, I've never seen any on a tank...

If you're asking me, click on my red house for my thread. I have some pics in there. I'll get more tomorrow evening with the tank completely lit up. My tank is a new startup, no corals yet.

 

[Black Mammoth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12478529#post12478529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Xeroxman
So what did you finally chose?? Or I might have missed it.. Deltec or ER?

Currently I'm going with the ATI Bubble Master 250. I've read, been PM'd, and talked to quite a few people with the ATI BM250 on their system and have been pretty happy with it. Right now the price is so good, I just can't afford to not at least give it a try Worst case I'll sell it and get a better one if necessary.

 

[tbittner]

You know, that might be a reason for a large sump. It would give more dwell time for the skimmer. My skimmer isn't big enough for my water volume but it keeps the water pretty clean. I'm convinced that you don't need a monster skimmer, but then again, I don't keep much SPS.

 

[Jar*Head]

I wish i could say solaris lighting, 4 Tunze 6101, and no chiller . My tank is only a bit bigger than your and i use 4 x 400w MH, 4 ATI power module 4 bulbs T-5, 4 Tunze 6301 stream and working on a monster chiller. Better yet i will be living in Colorado.

IMO, if you go with the minimum for now, you will spend the money for upgrade later......

 

[Black Mammoth]

I was going to post something long and drawn out. Instead of that, I'll be to the point. Again, I'm not trying to do the tank or just get by on equipment. That is not my goal. My goal is to have a nice tank when I'm done. In the process I want to engineer something efficient in both equipment and energy. $500 on a chiller isn't going to kill me, especially on a tank large like this. If I was doing a budget tank I wouldn't be considering Aquarium Obsessed, Tunze, and Sfiligoi.

My 90g runs off of 325 watts, except for when the heaters have to kick in. That includes lighting, flow, skimming, etc. IMHO, that is pretty impressive especially since I'm keeping SPS, Clams, and Anenomes. Maybe I'm one of the few that thinks that is cool and get a kick out of it. I was able to do this by researching on RC here I tried different skimmers, lighting combinations, and flow. It was a learning process, but a fun one at that. I'm not saying I'll get it right on a 300g the first time around.