Thoughts on an outdoor frag setup

[noy]

I'm seeking input on a setting up an outdoor frag growout setup.
I am just fascinated by the idea of using natural sunlight to grow out frags (SPS). I currently run a 60 gallon shallow system in the basement (all SPS) and have 2 main displays.

The set up I was thinking was to get a 6x4' greenhouse and simply run a 4x2 shallow frag setup inside.

As for livestock - just a few hardy fishes (maybe a small tang, a wrasse) and a small CUC. Enough fish to generate some fish poo for the corals.

I was thinking sumpless and just having a skimmer right in the tank (probably need an external re-circ due to low water level). I would run GFO and carbon. Probably have heater just in case. Water movement would be a couple of WP20's. Probably use a jebao dosing (Calc/Alk/Mag).

I live in Canada so I would only be able to run this in the spring/summer/fall months. I foresee growing out frags and then having a sale at the end of season and putting whatever I don't see into my current frag setup.

Seeking thoughts on input on:

1) Is there any advantage to natural sunlight grown frags - or am I going to end up with browned out frags/crummy colouration?

2) Any problems with the described setup?

3) Will I need supplementary 20K lighting for colouration?

4) Any further suggestions?

 

[Coelli]

I can't help you, but hopefully o2manyfish can. Not sure if he's still running it but he had an outdoor frag tank plumbed into his main system. If you don't see him post here maybe hit him up in PM.

 

[noy]

thanks, actually that gives me a great thought - plumbing it into my frag system is actually quite feasible and would eliminate a lot of equipment!

 

[Swip]

Take a look at Tidalgardens on youtube. He is running a greenhouse and has a few videos about it. Also has some really good videos about coral.

 

[DIRK GRIFFIN]

Concentrate on a nice indoor set up. It is NOT as easy as you might think. Using your time spent/saved from not doing the outdoor one, will make the indoor system much nicer....hopefully
-Continuous set up and tear downs will lead to many issues.
-In plumbed with another system might eliminate some problems, it just puts your other system at risk
-Many green house type set ups I have seen over the years MUST have smoked glass to defuse the light/intensity and were always very warm. I know you are in Canada and these were not...there are always unforseen issues. It is not worth the risk...
-Garretts Acropolis while in Ca, has quite the backyard set up and has some...on line info. From what I understood when I visited years ago, the shades were down during the day for many, many reasons
-A constant temp will be difficult to maintain. I am in MN, if/when a cold front comes thru you will find out in a hurry how your secondary equipment and set up handles the changes. 20-40 degree's is not a normal change or problem for corals to adapt too.
-Don't use any cuc's incase they puke and die
-How are the bugs during the summer time, they will get into your set up
-Again, spending all of that time spent maintaining, working, tweaking and making your indoor system better will pay off in the long/short term..
good luck

 

[organism]

If you're going to be bringing everything back inside anyways then just save the huge headache and build it indoors to start with. o2manyfish has an awesome outdoor setup here in Socal but it's because it works year round out here.

Your climate makes an outdoor tank pointless unless you're planning on putting it in a greenhouse, plus your whole plan hinges on the unlikely hope that you can sell everything you don't have space for before winter, which is its own recipe for disaster imo. Basically you're taking such an enormous amount of unknowns for granted that you're already guaranteeing it will fail, and you haven't even bought anything yet.

Your realistic options are to get a legit greenhouse, move to a warmer climate, or do an indoor system.

 

[noy]

Take a look at Tidalgardens on youtube. He is running a greenhouse and has a few videos about it. Also has some really good videos about coral.

I saw that setup - I'm not even in the same league. I do take note of the netting over the tanks to reduce sunlight - interesting.

 

[noy]

@dirk & @organism
Thanks for the input - very useful.
I looked at Garrett's setup (and tidalgarden's)- it does seem every outdoor setup has some form of screen/filter for the intense sunlight.

I currently do have a 60 gallon frag/grow-out sps setup. Its fairly stable at this point. Its more of a growout setup as I do have some larger colonies in there.

The point about putting my current system at risk makes total sense and is well taken.

As for getting rid of the frags at the end of season - I can probably work out an arrangement with one of the LFS (most of which I know quite well) and sell whatever I don't want to keep @wholesale. That is something to be worked out for sure.

I am just intrigued by the idea of growing out corals using natural sunlight.
The whole idea just has a holistic appeal to it. Just too bad I live in Canada.

Not totally committed to doing this as it was pointed out I haven't bought a thing yet. This is why I am "thinking aloud" with this thread. What I'm trying to get a handle on is whether there are any gains from growing sps in natural sunlight because if there isn't then it is really pointless.

 

[Reefvet]

As for getting rid of the frags at the end of season - I can probably work out an arrangement with one of the LFS (most of which I know quite well) and sell whatever I don't want to keep @wholesale.

You might not have saleable corals at that time of the year. For one thing in strong daylight you're going to have a lot of brown corals and corals with very limited colors. They take weeks to acclimate when moved and not all color up quickly.

I am just intrigued by the idea of growing out corals using natural sunlight.
The whole idea just has a holistic appeal to it. Just too bad I live in Canada.

Temp stability is key. Might be pretty hard to do there.

What I'm trying to get a handle on is whether there are any gains from growing sps in natural sunlight because if there isn't then it is really pointless.

I've bought corals from Steve Garrett, been to O2manyfishe's place and several other outdoor setups here in Southern California.

Steve's place is quite a set up. Lots of thought and work to create that system and a lot to maintain it. Nice corals. 3 weeks minimum for color once they're in my frag tanks.

O2manyfish's set up is pretty ruff and a bit of a mess. Tons of Zenia and other random stuff. Not what you're thinking of doing.

Natural sunlight grows corals wonderfully but not without a lot of work.

Any Racoons up there ? Any wind up there ? Does the power ever go out ?

Mid-day sun is 2000 PAR here right now. Not many frags will live in that for long (except in their natural reef environment.) Mid-Winter brings very short days. Spring is coastal fog. Stability is a challenge.

I run several frag tanks inside, all NSW. LEDs and one tank still on T5. An Apex and Dropcam mean I can have a life at the same time. Oh and I own a nice Honda generator that I use at least twice a year when the power goes out.

 

[bbaz123456]

I agree with everybody else, it is not as easy as it sounds. I would never do it....again. I spent a few years fighting ridiculous algae outbreaks, bleached or browned out corals, temp fluctuations, and a whole lot of other problems. Now I have a 30'x32' greenhouse attached to my house that has 1 tank for a fuge in it.
I'm not saying that it can not be done, because it obviously has been, but it is a whole different ball game than what we are used to.
If you do decide to go ahead with it, I would definitely plan on a good heater and a big chiller because you will need it. You will be amazed at how quickly your temps will rise and fall.

 

[noy]

Good input Reefvet/bbaz123456

I've been monitoring daily temperatures the past few weeks and its been crazy where i am - so the point about temperature stability is important.

Think at this point i'll probably hold off for now (this season) and continue to research this more.

thanks all!

 

[thegrun]

Contact Steve Garrett at http://www.garretts-acropolis.com/ He has a 1000gallon frag tank here is SoCal and is in the process of building a second. It is extremal energy efficient, he has some great design concepts for water flow, heating and cooling.

 

[Aqua Chemist]

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/31724-my-new-coral-greenhouse/

This guy has built two outdoor commercial setups. This latest one is 5000 gallons. Might find some useful info and pics.

 

[firebirdude]

Canada? Completely impractical. Winter aside, simply saving on lighting costs is NOTHING compared to the PITA you're about to undertake.

 

[RainbowReefer]

1) Is there any advantage to natural sunlight grown frags - or am I going to end up with browned out frags/crummy coloration?

You will end up with 99.9% all browned out frags.

2) Any problems with the described setup?

Keeping the Temp stable might be a issue, also a lot of times you will actually need to cover the tank because direct light in a shallow tank is to much on coral.

3) Will I need supplementary 20K lighting for coloration?

I know a large farm that has a green house, they use natural sunlight, but then once things are grown out and frags are healed they move them to there t5 light, I believe its Dr. Mac, he has a few videos you might want to look into.

4) Any further suggestions?

Big things will be temp control, also I assume this will be in a green house so rain can't get into it right? If it is in a closed green house humidity and heat will be a issue so you will need good ventilation.