Too small to be ich...I think

LoneStar45

LoneStar45

New member
I noticed my emperor Angel started acting sluggish. I looked him over good and it appears he has a light white powdering on him.
It is almost like talc powder in blotches. I decided to watch him for a day and got a 20 gallon quaranteen tank runnig with the water from the tank. I added some live rock with a bare bottom. I couldnt get him out, so I tried putting a jar with a mirror in it to try to catch him. This sounded like a good idea but he didnt feel good enough to pick a fight with himself. I noticed several other fishes were dying, some already dead. Last night, my dottyback got in the jar and he looked pretty bad. So I dropped him in the sick tank and this morning he is eating and looking much better.
Here is the Emperor: (He's not a happy camper.)
105070Emp1.jpg


Whatever this is, It is extremely aggresive.

I had to take all the live rock out of my display tank and filled a 40 gallon trashcan with water and closed it up circulating to hopefully kill off the algae that was covering it. I currently have a sump/refugium with substrate and cheatomorpha that was added last week. I had about 200 lbs of live rock in my tank and was battling it constantly fighting off blooms. Did I have too much LR?

I left the fish that looked ok and the corals, mainly leathers and a couple LPS in the tank. I have about 1 to 1 1/2 in. sand bed. I now have 5 fish in this 20 gallon tank and I am treating it with formalin. 2/03/06 (first day of treatment).

Other than not knowing what this is, and if this is the correct treatment, I'm concerned about having to put the remainder of my fish in this small tank. It is going to cycle on me and then what? Will daily water changes and syphoning the bottom of the sick tank prevent me from losing these fish to the impending nitrite spike?
Also, I need suggestions on how to set this tank back up to where the algae will stop and I can convert to SPS's. Should I scrap the sand and go bare bottom? Should I put less LR in it.
I know this is alot to address but I've just about had it with battling this hobby. Its been fighting me tooth and nail.
If I cant get this right, my next thread will read Aquarium for sale.
 
As far as the disease issues go - if the pathogen is aggressively going through your tank quickly, sounds like it could be Brooklynella. But also, based on your graphic description it could be velvet (Amyloodinium). Here is a link with summary information on both

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/fishdiseases.html

I would suggest doing a quick search on both to see which clinical signs best match your fish. Treatment for both is different so it is important to try and get a good identification.

Whichever disease it is, sounds like you need to move all your fish to your treatment tank to clean them up. I would put the live rock back in your main display, as some treatment options, such as copper, will kill off much of the macro fauna on them. You can use inert objects such as PVC pipe. If you do decide your fish needs some live rock, keep it to a minimum, or better yet, get some cheap base rock and use it instead. You can then leave your main display fish-less for 8 weeks, which should be long enough to let the pathogens die out. Although, keep in mind that pathogens like Amyloodinium may persist for a long time in the absence of fish host, so there is no guarantee. Once your fish are treated AND you feel you've left your tank fish-less long enough you can move your fish back. These parasites won't affect your invertebrates.

As far as your tank cycling goes, this is a big possibility and is probably best managed by constant monitoring and water changes.

Sorry this isn't more complete (just have a moment and have to dash off), but it should get you started. Others may chime in.

Hope this helps.
 
Definatly sounds like Amyloodium [velvet] Remove the Formalin with carbon ASAP , do a water change , and treat with Copper. Amyloodium is a fast killer so you have no time to waste!!
 
Thanks for the advice. Last night I did a partial water change didnt use carbon, just left the formalin in there. I only had a small amount in there from the night before. I put in copper safe.
He died during the night. Amazingly, My clownfish I am now naming "Lucky" is alive. He had gotten to the point where his body was curved and floating in the current like a leaf. He is swiming near the surface but he's horizontal. The Blenny and Basslet are also looking better.
While I'm at it, and I will preface this by saying, I rarely say anything negative about anyone, or at least usually refrain from doing so, and very upset about losing my Imperator, and the fact that I had to rip down my tank and start over again, I feel the need to say something about the online store where I bought these fish. Granted, I turned my old quaranteen tank into a zoo reef, and didnt do a quanateen on these fish. I bought all the fish tat are now in my sick tank (those that made it) from Saltwaterfish.com. They shipped all the fish in RANCID water.
All but one fish (clown) is dead. When I told them about it, they replied 3 days later with a one line email saying "ship them back". I will NEVER buy fish from this store again.
 
Don't mix formalin with copper. Supposedly, the formalin will break the copper into toxic state. Thanks for sharing negative experience. I agree that it is responsibility of merchant to due his/her due diligence in pre-treating fish for disease and it is unethical to ship fish that are in state of distress/disease. I recommend LiveAquaria. They are diligent about pre-screening, though you will ocassionally receive some weak fish - that is unavoidable, and is the reason you must Qt. however, LiveAquria's 14 day stay alive policy is unmatched in the industry. i'm willing to pay extra because of this guarantee.(even then, i'm paying a lot less than via a bricks and mortar fish store - and even they cannot guarantee that fish are disease free.)
 
While both amylo and brook are possibilities I don't see anything that says its obviously amylo and think brooklynella is a definite possiblity. You should be able to ascertain whether this is amylo by giving one of the fish a shallow FW bath ... if amylo a fine white powder should develop on on the bottom of the FW bath container.
 
I'm positive it was Velvet. I put them in a freshwater dip and It left a snow in the water. I didnt see any problems in the gill area and they were acting exactly like the symptoms of velvet.
My lesson, Everything I get from now on goes in quaranteen for a month.
 
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