Totally new to reefing (from Hong Kong!)

[Reefiez]

Hey everybody, Lawrence from Hong Kong here! I am totally new to the saltwater hobby. I've got 3 freshwater tanks, and have finally decided to take the scary scary plunge into the saltwater world.

I must say that the crazy amount of basic knowledge required for a reef tank is a little off-putting. But luckily I stumbled onto the BRS 52 weeks of reefing series on youtube. I must say that Ryan really does an awesome job going into good detail about every single little thing. I must say I've watched hundreds of videos on youtube, and I feel that I've at least gotten the most basic stuff down.

Here in Hong Kong, there's a street where there is literally a hundred LFS within a quarter mile stretch. I've done my research on the equipment I kinda wanted, and the US online prices, to compare with what they are charging here in Hong Kong. One advice I heard a lot of from youtube channels is to that a larger aquarium is "easier", more water = less fluctuations. I took this to heart, but also had to balance it with the cost.

While researching aquariums, it seemed that not a lot of large companies do large sized reef ready aquariums. The only one I came across was Red Sea, and specifically the Red Sea Reefer 525 XL. It is a 60x22x22.6" tank, with a display water volume of 108 gallons, and sump water volume of 31 gallons. I was considering a custom tank of around the same length and width, but 30" in height, to further increase water volume.

After shopping around, I ended up with the Red Sea Reefer 525 deluxe, which has 3 AI Hydra 26 LED lights (with the mounting arms) included. What really did it for me was the price. The whole set (tank, sump, cabinet, auto top up, LEDs with mounting arms) cost me $3,050, which I felt was an insane bargain. I've already researched the prices on BRS, with the reefer 525 at $2,600, and the AI Hydra 26 coming at $350 + $65 for bracket = $415, and 3 of them with the set coming in at a whopping $3,845!

Anyways, I am super pumped with the purchase! I haven't bought the rest of the equipment yet, and I hope I could get some advice from you guys.

Powerhead: Still debating between Ecotech MP40 x2 ($450 each) or the Gyre XF250 x1 ($290). I know Ecotech seems to be the established and well trusted brand, but it'd be super cool to hear from those who have used both and which one they prefer.

Return Pump: Debating between the Vectra M1 ($460) and L1 ($590). Noise is a concern, and I've seen a youtube video of some guy's L1 humming loud even on the 3rd setting. Was his just a defective unit? What are your thoughts? I like the adjustable flow rate, gives a lot more freedom for adjust-ability.

Heaters: 2x 300w, undecided about brand, any suggestions for one that keeps the temp in a more narrow range? (My freshwater tank uses eheim, and I get +/- 3 degrees).

Skimmer: The staff I talked to recommended the Deltec SC 2060 ($850), rated for like 3-400 gallon tanks under heavy fish load. I was considering reef octopus based on online reviews for it's cost and effectiveness, but it seems that shop stopped carrying the brand due to negative customer feedback on the quality.

Salt: Red Sea Coral Salt

Sand: Need some advice on this one too. I used an online calculator to see how much sand I needed to get a 1 inch sand depth. I'm probably going to use 3 22lb bags of Red Sea Sand. Probably going to use 1 bag of live sand, and 2 bags of dry sand. Is that a good idea? Also, I was thinking of getting the sand in different grains. 1 bag of ocean white (0.25-1mm) and mix it with 2 bags of reef pink (0.5-1.5mm). Is that okay?

Rock: Considering dry rock over live rock, I'm not in a hurry to to cycle the tank and get fish in. My main priority is to keep the the risk of unwanted pests to a minimum.

I think that's all the stuff I will be buying for sure. I am also considering a GFO reactor, and dosing with Kalkwasser in the top-up tank, and perhaps a refugium to grow those stringy algae?

Anyways, I hope to hear some of your comments and suggestions, and I'm sure I'll be doing a post on setting up my tank when it arrives!

 

[chueu]

Your equipment looks very good...

Ive been to the goldfish market in mongkok.. Nice place..

 

[jem454]

Welcome, I'm fairly new to this also. Over the last year or so I've been accumulating all of my equipment. Everything that I have bought is automated. Lights, ato, automatic water change, dosing pumps.

I really have no need for a reef controller, and the last thing I need to buy, I would also suggest for you. Seems that aquarium heaters sticking in the on position and cooking the tank is a fairly common problem. To remedy this I am buying a ranco temperature controller. Cheap insurance for a common disastrous problem.

 

[djbon]

I think you need to setup refugium as well, along with your main tank. Cycling concurrently will save you a lot of time before stocking your tank. I believe a lot reefers here can give some idea setting up one.

 

[Fish Friend]

Hi Lawrence, how wonderful to hear about your saltwater dive.
The ocean need all the skill you have at hosting water-life and I am sure you will be great at it, in no time - it is clear that you enjoy learning.
I have too little insight in that kind of gear to have much advice (keep a nano tank with two clowns and a LTA, waiting for a shipment of some little extra corals for them this morning. Not much in comparison and I have no problem with the extra time spent on keeping it manually, but it does take up more time), so I will let others advice you. I can say that if you want a sand-digging anemone like the Long Tentacle Anemone, I would suggest keeping the fine sand from spreading around, as these things have a harder time getting into harder substrates. There is something about nice refugiums that I absolutely adore, I can suggest adding Vayssierea Felis & Bispira Tricyclia or similar featherworms if you can find them. The duster-worms are great for polishing the water and the V. Felis nudibranches only eat those types of worms, keeping their number down. IMO, very enjoyable additions.

Remember that while moving the dKH can be easy, make sure you know if the type of compound you choose will lower or raise the pH - not all instructions will remember to explain if the dKH-buffer you mix will lower or raise pH, very annoying for the noob I was not so long ago

Oh and remember to not remove too many organics through sump and skimmer, if you want to host corals that will thrive on their presence... (( ...and hurry slow & keep enjoying, the sea needs your help ))

 

[Reefiez]

Thanks for the comments guys! Seems that the aquarium is estimated to arrive in early Jan, a good lesson in patience.

I've also tentatively decided to use the Gyre over the MP10/40. I will be running 2 Gyre XF250s (I'll buy 1 set of XF250 pump with controller, and 1 XF250 pump only, since the controller can be connected to 2 pumps). The reason is mainly down to cost. 2 XF250s with controller is cheaper than 1 MP40. And I would have been running 2 MP40s. The flow should be much more than enough (spec says it can max at over 5000 gph each), resulting in a theoretical maximum of 100x+ flow for my 110g without even considering the return pump's gph. I will probably be running it at a much lower level (maybe 20%?) at first.

I'm also not super sure about what a good order to do things, I know lots of people have successes doing stuff in different steps. This is my current plan:

Stage 1 (tank setup and plumbing)
Setup/place cabinet, aquarium and sump.
Place skimmer + return pump in sump at desired position, and connect the tubings (overflow to sock filter, return pump to return outlet), not connecting power.
Setup RO/DI unit ($200) 4 stage 100g/day.

Stage 2 (hardscape setup dry)
Should have 100-150lbs of dry rock for aquascaping ready.
Aquascape in dry tank (no sand) and make it pretty (I'm planning to look at other people's tanks on this forum and attempt to copy nice designs)

Stage 3 (electrics and socket)
Put the Gyres into the tank in their rough positions.
Connect the power supply for skimmer, return pump, gyres, and LEDs. Do not turn them on for the moment.

Stage 4 (adding sand + mixed RO/DI water)
Start churning out RO/DI water. As space is really limited in HK, I'm a little concerned about how I'll be storing the RO/DI water and the salt water. 2x 32 gallon brute bins are not feasible (not even sure if they sell those bins in HK). Going to have to ask around and see what people here use to store their water / saltwater mix.
Add sand, 1 pack live sand, 2-3 packs dry sand.
Add mixed water (unheated). I expect to fill my tank over a couple of days. The water level will NOT reach the overflow. I'll turn on 1 Gyre pump to its weakest setting to provide some flow for the few days of filling up the tank.

Stage 5 (filling the sump and turning on the gadgets)
Fill the sump with mixed water.
Turn on return pump to minimum setting.
Place heaters in sump, give it some time to acclimate to water temperature before turning it on. Set one heater at 77f and one at 75f as a backup.
Turn on skimmer (not sure how to tweak it, or whether I need to tweak it)
Set lights to run for 10 hours per day.
Tune the 2 gyres. (I'll put a picture of where I plan to place my gyres up, not sure if it's a good idea like that)
Let system run for a few days to check for any leaks or problems.

Stage 6 (cycling the tank)
I plan to use Red Sea's Reef Mature Pro Kit x2 (each pack is rated for 65g) to cycle. I believe it is approximately a 1 month program that includes bacteria and also chemicals to "feed"the bacteria.
I'll also be using test kits.
The instructions say that I can start introducing the clean up crew at around day 10 of the program, I'll probably be adding a really small clean up crew, perhaps 1 snail/hermit per 10g, and slowly build up from there.
They also recommend adding herbivore fishes at day 14ish.

Stage 7 (no idea what next, need help!)
What I want to do is to setup a refugium in my sump, probably buy an acrylic box with holes and get some chaeto tumbling inside?
Also want to add corals, soft corals first, then LPS and possibly SPS in the distant future. But I'm not too sure of the "right timing".
I also want to be dosing kalkwasser from my auto top-up. When should I start dosing? Before I put corals? Wouldn't the calcium just build up because I have no corals that uses it? How would calcium be maintained if I just add more without it being used? Super confused here.
An anemone is something I want to keep, is it better to add it before corals or after? Seems that anemones prefer a stable tank, so perhaps waiting half a year is a good idea?


Here's a quick paint sketch of approximately where things will go, I could use some advice on gyre placement if anyone has tried this configuration (1 horizontal and 1 vertical pointing at each other from opposing sides of tank)

 

[Reefiez]

Dunno why I can't find the button to edit post?

Anyways, I've given my refugium a little more thought. Is it possible to combine DSB + Chaeto in 1 refugium? What do you guys think?

 

[Duncanr9t]

You can't buy Dry Rock like Pukani in Hong Kong.
Deltec is good but don't expect it to be quiet, unless you go DC version. I assume you got your Red Sea from Ocean World, they always recommend way bigger than normal skimmers, have a think how you want to use your sump. If you intend to use reactors in the future or even a refugium in sump, you should take that into consideration.

With the rocks, you could buy the live rock then leave it out to get all the crabs and pests out then cure it since you mention you have time. You might even find an urchin crawl out.....bonus

MP40 are quiet according to reviews.

Are you going to install Controller like GHL or Apex?

 

[Reefiez]

Hi duncan, yeah, I got it from Ocean World, the price they charged was cheaper than I expected to pay.

I'm thinking to order Pukani from overseas, currently trying to get some shipping quotes from US/UK/Canada online stores. A pity that it isn't sold here.

Do you have any recommendation to places to buy live rock at a good price? The cheapest I've found was the one near the tofu place (the shop with freshwater and marine fishes + corals), charging 35$ per lb if purchasing over 100lbs in a go.

I am not considering a controller at the moment, as I want to keep the setup simple while learning. Also not considering a calcium reactor at the moment, but might add a GFO reactor in the near future.

Seems you also got a Deltec, I'm assuming recommended by Ocean? It seems to be way oversized for your tank size too lol. I've read somewhere that getting a much oversized skimmer reduces it's effectiveness? Not enough waste to create the bubbles or something?

 

[Duncanr9t]

Hi duncan, yeah, I got it from Ocean World, the price they charged was cheaper than I expected to pay.

It seems to be way oversized for your tank size too lol. I've read somewhere that getting a much oversized skimmer reduces it's effectiveness? Not enough waste to create the bubbles or something?

For this question, hope the more experienced reefers can help.
My SC1455 is rated for 800L tank. I use to have a BM Curve 5 but didn't think it was that good so I switched to Deltec 1455 with the intention of upgrading to Reefer 350 next year.

To be honest, for your size of tank, you don't need much to keep everything stable.
You have the volume of water to help with stability so unless you feed 5 times a day, a ton of food and have a seriously overstocked tank, you don't even need to reactors in.....yet

You could do Carbon in filter bag and place it in high flow area of your sump for clearer water.
For alk, calcium and mag, use the Red Sea test kits to test your water and figure out how much is used but you won't know that until you have all your corals in and even then after a while, consumption would start to increase as they get bigger.
Just do either kalk or dose 2 part like Brightwell A&B.

If you are hard plumbing....plumb extra slots/ball valves for the reactors....just in case you decide to go carbon, gfo, calcium or bio-pellet reactor.

when do you get your tank?

 

[Duncanr9t]

Powerhead: Still debating between Ecotech MP40 x2 ($450 each) or the Gyre XF250 x1 ($290). I know Ecotech seems to be the established and well trusted brand, but it'd be super cool to hear from those who have used both and which one they prefer.

Return Pump: Debating between the Vectra M1 ($460) and L1 ($590). Noise is a concern, and I've seen a youtube video of some guy's L1 humming loud even on the 3rd setting. Was his just a defective unit? What are your thoughts? I like the adjustable flow rate, gives a lot more freedom for adjust-ability.

Heaters: 2x 300w, undecided about brand, any suggestions for one that keeps the temp in a more narrow range? (My freshwater tank uses eheim, and I get +/- 3 degrees).

Salt: Red Sea Coral Salt

Sand: Need some advice on this one too. I used an online calculator to see how much sand I needed to get a 1 inch sand depth. I'm probably going to use 3 22lb bags of Red Sea Sand. Probably going to use 1 bag of live sand, and 2 bags of dry sand. Is that a good idea? Also, I was thinking of getting the sand in different grains. 1 bag of ocean white (0.25-1mm) and mix it with 2 bags of reef pink (0.5-1.5mm). Is that okay?

Anyways, I hope to hear some of your comments and suggestions, and I'm sure I'll be doing a post on setting up my tank when it arrives!

Pumps: If you use Vectra M1/L1, you could consider using Mp40wqd since you can control everything from the same app.
No pump is going to be quiet even DC but it will be quieter than an AC.
If you really want to try Gyre, you could always mix it

Heaters: General consensus is Eheim is good. If you had a controller, probably Schego titanium heater and let the controller do the work. You might not even need 2 but you will need one for the saltwater mixing bucket.

Salt: Red Sea salt is good, the Pro has high alk, think its around 11+
They have a website which lets you check the batch number and find out what the salt contains.

Sand: Live sand will help with the cycling. 1 bag of live should be enough.
Dry sand, make sure you rinse it preferably with RODI water.....at least the last time before you dump it into tank.

 

[madreefer2013]

Hi
I live in HK too and just bought new tank Red Sea 425XL from OceanWorld Aquarium Tung Choi St. You can check it my equipment in the Tank Builds Section. The Red Sea tanks are much cheaper because they are shipped from China.
I'm using CaribSea South Sea Rock and Red Sea Live Sand. Do not use live rock from the stores in Mongkok since they are full of pests.
This is my third time getting wet in Saltwater. Other two didn't go great because I was impatient . You be to plan carefully. If you are in the market for 525XL it may take a month since they don't keep stock. I had to wait a few weeks for my 425 XL.

You won't need a heater in HK. You will definitely need a chiller since even though temps are cooler now the tank maybe over 24c.

I would also check out the Radions for your tank . I bought the Kessil's for the shimmer.
You will also need a good RO/DI unit . Do not use HK tap water since you will get algae blooms.

If you intend to keep corals you will need to choose a "method" i.e. Zeovit, Aquaforest to keep them.

I would choose the Vertex 180i over the Deltec. The guys at Oceanworld will push the Deltec to you since they are the Authorized dealers . I've used Deltecs before and they are noisy. Tunze is the best but you can't buy it in HK.

 

[Duncanr9t]

Yea, Deltec is noisy.
Vertex is finnicky I heard.
Can consider NYOS, but you will have to ship it in.

 

[madreefer2013]

Yea, Deltec is noisy.
Vertex is finnicky I heard.
Can consider NYOS, but you will have to ship it in.

I went with the Tunze 9410 DC but you will have to ship it in from the US.

 

[Reefiez]

Hey thanks for all the suggestions!

Wow, never heard of NYOS, but looking at their quantum skimmers, I must say the product looks very pretty (especially with some purple mixed in).

US skimmers will be annoying to use here right? Since the voltage and socket head are different?

If I go Deltec, I think I'll go with sc1660, it is a little thinner (but longer) and gives me more space for my refugium.

I think I'll stick with 2 Gyres ($3k) compared to 2 MP40 ($7k).

I still can't decide between the Vectra L1 and M1. Both are way oversized for my tank, and the pumps will most likely never operate at 100%. But is there any difference if for using L1 at 20%, or M1 at 30%? (I'm just guessing I would be using these settings)

I'm going to stop by fish street on tuesday afternoon, gonna shop around more and compare prices and stuff.

 

[Reefiez]

Hi
I live in HK too and just bought new tank Red Sea 425XL from OceanWorld Aquarium Tung Choi St. You can check it my equipment in the Tank Builds Section. The Red Sea tanks are much cheaper because they are shipped from China.
I'm using CaribSea South Sea Rock and Red Sea Live Sand. Do not use live rock from the stores in Mongkok since they are full of pests.
This is my third time getting wet in Saltwater. Other two didn't go great because I was impatient . You be to plan carefully. If you are in the market for 525XL it may take a month since they don't keep stock. I had to wait a few weeks for my 425 XL.

You won't need a heater in HK. You will definitely need a chiller since even though temps are cooler now the tank maybe over 24c.

I would also check out the Radions for your tank . I bought the Kessil's for the shimmer.
You will also need a good RO/DI unit . Do not use HK tap water since you will get algae blooms.

If you intend to keep corals you will need to choose a "method" i.e. Zeovit, Aquaforest to keep them.

I would choose the Vertex 180i over the Deltec. The guys at Oceanworld will push the Deltec to you since they are the Authorized dealers . I've used Deltecs before and they are noisy. Tunze is the best but you can't buy it in HK.

My 525 is expected in early Jan, place the order last week. I got the deluxe with the Hydra26HD because it was such a good deal. $14,500, and for $22,680, you get 3x Hydra26, coming to $2,700 per light (including the mounting arm). Couldn't say no to that lol!

 

[Reefiez]

Also, I'm really clueless at the moment about plumbing, can you guys share how you connected your return pump?

Will flexible tubing be OK? Do the sizes match the receiving end of the red sea reefer? Do i have to get any connectors or size changers? (no idea about these terms...)

I prefer flexible tubing for some reason, feels that it gives more flexibility and makes it easily replaceable.

 

[Duncanr9t]

Also, I'm really clueless at the moment about plumbing, can you guys share how you connected your return pump?

Will flexible tubing be OK? Do the sizes match the receiving end of the red sea reefer? Do i have to get any connectors or size changers? (no idea about these terms...)

I prefer flexible tubing for some reason, feels that it gives more flexibility and makes it easily replaceable.

Quickest and easiest setup is flex tubing which they will give to you when your tank arrives.

Later on, if you don't want the hassle of hard plumbing for your chiller and/or reactors, just get a Sicce Silent pump. The tubing for the chiller will also be supplied by the shop.

There are tons of threads especially on the Tank build section showing how people plumb their 525xl.