Hi everyone, I could really use some help. I was going to set up a 90 gallon fresh water tank and my lfs convinced me that I could do salt water. I wish I would have found this site before I made any purchuses. I did by a couple of books and read some articles on a Dr Foster web site and thought the lfs was being truthful. Here's what I have. I have a canister filter, seio 1100, 50 lbs of live rock, and crushed coral for substrate. Now that I found this site I'm more confused then ever! It sounds like I need so much more and my pocket book is getting pretty empty. I didn't know anything about the sump pump and was told that I wouldn't need a protein skimmer for another few months. Is there any help for me or am I doomed for bankrupcy?
tricked by lfs
- Thread starter tura71
- Start date
Depends on if you want a fish only or a reef tank. If fish only is your goal, which it should be just starting out in marine aquaria, then you should be ok with what you have.
If you end up with a higher fish load you would then need a protein skimmer. I would start out with a lighter fish load and proceed very slowly. Marine fish keeping can be more difficult than freshwater if you let it. By starting out to fast you could be heading for disaster. Just take your time, read a lot about the fish and procedures for marine tanks and enjoy.
If you end up with a higher fish load you would then need a protein skimmer. I would start out with a lighter fish load and proceed very slowly. Marine fish keeping can be more difficult than freshwater if you let it. By starting out to fast you could be heading for disaster. Just take your time, read a lot about the fish and procedures for marine tanks and enjoy.
I not really interested in a reef tank and I do plan on going slow. I've learned my lesson the hard way! I plan on doing my homework with any moves I make. The guy sold me 120lbs if crushed coral which I added to my tank only to find that when the tank cleared and I could actually see there was a foot of crushed coral in the back. So after taking about 50lbs out and waiting for the water to clear again I added the live rock only to find now that I should have used sand. I asked about live sand and he said that I didn't need it and it was alot more money. I'm such an idiot, my husband is going to KILL me. How hard would it be to switch over to sand now? Would my live rock be ok? What about the sump, is it a must right now? Thanks in advance for any help!!
snuggle2me
New member
Maybe you could use playsand from homedepot. Take some vinager with you to test it there to see if it fizzes. There are lots of articles on here about using playsand. Here is a link talking about southdown sand but you could probably find a replacement for it.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...thing+you+ever+wanted+to+know+about+Southdown
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...thing+you+ever+wanted+to+know+about+Southdown
ok... take a deep breath. you'll be fine.
Yes, yo can switch to sand if you want to... it's just going to make another cloud and a mess. Before you do that, let me as you this... do you like how the crushed coral looks? If you are just doing a fish only with live rock, there is nothing "wrong" with crushed coral, you will just need to vaccuum it from time to time. (just like you would if it was a fresh ware tank with gravel) you don't "need" a substrate at all, so you definately don't "need" sand. personally I like crushed coral and find it easier to maintain than sand sometimes.
Your live rock will be fine if you pull out the coral. you don't need a sump, nobody does. it's a "nice to have" not "must have" the big advantages of the sump are upping water volume, and finding a place to hide ugly heaters, pumps, ets. Some big disadvantages, are overflows, drilled tanks, more complexity, etc.
A 90 gallon fish only with live rock (FOWLR) with a crushed coral substrate can be positively stunning with good fish selection and nice aquascaping. I'd consider augmenting the flow of the canister filter return with some powerheads, but there is no need to go crazy with that either. Coral likes crazy turbulent flow, fish, not so much. Just try to arange and aim your powerheads so that there isn't a spot or spots where the water doesn't circulate. Poop and nasty red algea will accumulate there. if you want to visualze your flow, pulvarize some flake food into tiny bits, and dump a thimble full into the tank and watch the water movement. Tweak as nessary.
Good Luck !!!
Yes, yo can switch to sand if you want to... it's just going to make another cloud and a mess. Before you do that, let me as you this... do you like how the crushed coral looks? If you are just doing a fish only with live rock, there is nothing "wrong" with crushed coral, you will just need to vaccuum it from time to time. (just like you would if it was a fresh ware tank with gravel) you don't "need" a substrate at all, so you definately don't "need" sand. personally I like crushed coral and find it easier to maintain than sand sometimes.
Your live rock will be fine if you pull out the coral. you don't need a sump, nobody does. it's a "nice to have" not "must have" the big advantages of the sump are upping water volume, and finding a place to hide ugly heaters, pumps, ets. Some big disadvantages, are overflows, drilled tanks, more complexity, etc.
A 90 gallon fish only with live rock (FOWLR) with a crushed coral substrate can be positively stunning with good fish selection and nice aquascaping. I'd consider augmenting the flow of the canister filter return with some powerheads, but there is no need to go crazy with that either. Coral likes crazy turbulent flow, fish, not so much. Just try to arange and aim your powerheads so that there isn't a spot or spots where the water doesn't circulate. Poop and nasty red algea will accumulate there. if you want to visualze your flow, pulvarize some flake food into tiny bits, and dump a thimble full into the tank and watch the water movement. Tweak as nessary.
Good Luck !!!
Its ok, really. The way we learn is by making mistakes and then learning from them. You can switch over to sand if you want to but its not absolutely necessary. The crushed coral will require you to gravel vac the substrate when you do water changes, but thats ok too. My first several marine tanks had crushed coral in them and I had no problems. As long as you gravel vac it occasionally when you do your water changes. Sand beds do not require vaccuming, so its a little less maintenance. As long as your doing a fish only tank the cruched coral will be fine and you will not have the expense of buying sand.
Thanks so much! I'm feeling a bit better now. The guy at the store said that sand is way harder to clean?? What about live rock... how much more do I need and could I get by if I added "dead" rock? I've read that cycling goes faster with live rock. How many more power heads do I need? All I wanted was to get my little girl a nemo fishey. I've learned a good lesson, never take a 2 year old to the local fish store.
Choadmeyer
New member
Those bastards at the LFS sold me on crushed coral also. They're always trying to push that garbage on noobs.
yes, you can switch later, it's just a bit trickier. you can even do a gradual change, and scoop out a couple cups a week as you do water changes. a strong siphon will suck it upand out too. Continue scooping/siphoning until you have only a bit of crushed coral on the bottom, then start adding sand. the easiest way to do it without the massive sandstorm cloud is to get a hunk of 1" or better pvc pipe, and use it to direct the sand you are adding directly to the bottom of the tank. A little crushed coral mixed in with the sand won't hurt anything either.
For a FOWLR yopu probably have enough. Personally I give no marks to the x number of pounds per gallon formula. I shoot for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the visible volume of the tank to have rockwork. adding dead or base rock is perfetly fine. it will all be live in a short time.
Eat the shrimp yourself, the tank will be fine without it. Add your wee nemo (Percula or Ocellaris) to cycle the tank a pair of them is even nicer. I always cycle with clowns.
For a FOWLR yopu probably have enough. Personally I give no marks to the x number of pounds per gallon formula. I shoot for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the visible volume of the tank to have rockwork. adding dead or base rock is perfetly fine. it will all be live in a short time.
Eat the shrimp yourself, the tank will be fine without it. Add your wee nemo (Percula or Ocellaris) to cycle the tank a pair of them is even nicer. I always cycle with clowns.
If you are going to switch to sand you should do it now before you cycle the tank with crushed coral or add any fish. As far as cycling the tank, you can cycle the tank with a few mollies. These fish are brackish fish and they will do fine in your tank to cycle it and that way you will have some fish in the tank to enjoy while its cycling.
Do not add anything else to the tank until the ammonia and nitrite are back down to 0 ppm. They will initially rise, peak out then go to zero, this is when your tank is cycled and you can very slowly add marine fish to the tank.
You can add uncured rock to the tank, however this will take longer to get the initial bacteria started and will not smell very pleasant.
Many things determine how much live rock is enough. You need enough rock to help filter the water. You also need enough rock to give fish a retreat or hideaway from other tankmates. You may also need enough live rock for fish to graze off of, depending on which species of fish you intend to keep.
Just starting with clownfish you wouldn't need an enormous amount of rock, but if you plan on keeping angels or butterfly fish you would need enough rock for them to graze on.
Also its a personal choice to a point. I like to give the fish more room to cruise around a bit. Too much live rock in the tank can make it look crowded and not very realistic. Whatever you decide, and it is your choice, do what looks most appealing while still giving the tank inhabitants a food source and a feelling of security. If the fish don't feel sucure they will be under constant stress and will always be getting sick.
Good luck and enjoy!
UnderCoverDork
New member
yes, you will be broke...i have a 20 gallon that i have invested thousands into
Thanks everyone!! I'm gonna head to my local library and do some more research. I'm trying to plan out what kind of fish to do. My daughter would love the clownfish, I read that they will play if bought in a pair, but I want to make sure that I plan way in advance so that I won't have any problems with compatability. I like the look of the tangs, but I heard to add them last and I don't think they'll go with clownfish. I know that I have some time to think about this... any suggestions? I also fell in love with a wrasse fish at the store but read that they like to dig and won't do well in the crushed coral. Any book suggestions for fish?
Young Frankenstein
New member
Welcome to the club. If it makes you feel better thats how I started basically with my 6.5 year old boy. All he wanted was a little nemo fish. Than I got hooked on this more than he did. Now I have 2 display tanks a quarantine tank a sump and a fudge. You can build alot of this stuff yourself and please don't listen to lfs people, all they want is to sell $$$$. You are in the right forum for some real advice. This people will make an expert out of you in no time. Do tons of reading on the RC magazine and keep posting questions. As far as the sand by law in Florida (check with your local laws) you can get a 5 gallon bucket from the beach each time you go, just cleanit real good with a hose.Good luck.
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