Ttm questions

[aquamann183]

Hello everyone, I've looked around the forum some and haven't exactly found the information I've been looking for.
I'm setting up a 150g tank with a 40B sump that is in the process of cycling. The method I use needs to be able to accommodate for fish up to Tang size.

Can anyone give me a detailed step by step of equipment needed/daily procedures for the tank transfer method? If you do not like the tank transfer method and use a different method please just say the steps you do for your particular method.

Right now I have 2 ten gallon aquariums. Are these a suitable size for the tank transfer method/quarantine? Big enough?

How many fish can I do at the same time? A couple clownfish, a few smaller fish, one Tang? I'm not saying all at once, separately.

Minimum supplies? Heater? What else? Light, no light?

How long can the fish be in each tank before transferring? Wouldn't ammonia be a concern since they're in a small uncycled tank? How do I keep ammonia at safe levels?

Do you treat the fish with anything throughout this time? If so, what specifically and when do you use the product..How many days in, what situation, etc..

After the tank transfer method is complete I'm sure you guys/gals recommend keeping the fish in a quarantine tank for a certain amount of time..How long? Does this tank need to be cycled, what are the requirements for this tank?

I have a 40B tank with a 20 gallon sump as well that has been running for a few years and is cycled. Should I use this as a quarantine tank? Or a completely different tank?

I've heard people say to do quarantine before the ttm, what is best?

One other note, if you have to put the fish in a new tank with new saltwater every 3 days or so, it seems like it would get pretty expensive pretty quick because of the salt, is it?

If you have any other comments or questions please feel free to add that as well! I just want this tank to be done correctly and minimize fish loss in doing so. I have read a lot about people losing fish in the ttm and I want it to be done right..Plus some fish can get pretty expensive as you all know.

Thank you everyone!
Happy reefing!



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[hogfanreefer]

Here's what I do.

I also use 10 gallons for TTM. That should be good for small to medium size fish. A bigger fish, especially an active one like a tang may need a bigger tank. My tanks have a heater, an ammonia alert badge and a source for flow/aeration. I just use my Aquaclear HOB filters so I can use some floss to remove any uneaten food without disturbing the fish. A small powerhead rippling the surface would be ok to. I do have subdued lighting...the freshwater light that comes with the 10 gallon kits in my case. Some PVC fittings of the appropriate size for the fish to hide in completes my gear for TTM.

The fish should be in each tank 72 hours or less. It's ok to transfer less than 72 hours but not significantly more. 12 days which is 4 transfers for me. I then move the fish to a cycled qt and observe them there for 4 weeks or so. Your cycled 40 breeder would be ideal for that! This is where I choose to treat with prazipro (some do that in the second and fourth transfer tanks). The 4 weeks of observation is where I get the fish fat and looking to me as a food source. That often happens faster for "easy" fish like wrasse that often come rushing to the front when I approach after just a few days. Others don't get that tame till in to the observation phase.

For delicate fish I reverse the process with observation/acclimation first unless they show signs of ich. Of course you need to be prepared to treat for velvet/brook if they become apparent. When I do that the cycled QT is made fallow for 72 days after the fish is gone to the DT.

 

[hkgar]

Here's what I do.

I also use 10 gallons for TTM. That should be good for small to medium size fish. A bigger fish, especially an active one like a tang may need a bigger tank. My tanks have a heater, an ammonia alert badge and a source for flow/aeration. I just use my Aquaclear HOB filters so I can use some floss to remove any uneaten food without disturbing the fish. A small powerhead rippling the surface would be ok to. I do have subdued lighting...the freshwater light that comes with the 10 gallon kits in my case. Some PVC fittings of the appropriate size for the fish to hide in completes my gear for TTM.

The fish should be in each tank 72 hours or less. It's ok to transfer less than 72 hours but not significantly more. 12 days which is 4 transfers for me. I then move the fish to a cycled qt and observe them there for 4 weeks or so. Your cycled 40 breeder would be ideal for that! This is where I choose to treat with prazipro (some do that in the second and fourth transfer tanks). The 4 weeks of observation is where I get the fish fat and looking to me as a food source. That often happens faster for "easy" fish like wrasse that often come rushing to the front when I approach after just a few days. Others don't get that tame till in to the observation phase.

For delicate fish I reverse the process with observation/acclimation first unless they show signs of ich. Of course you need to be prepared to treat for velvet/brook if they become apparent. When I do that the cycled QT is made fallow for 72 days after the fish is gone to the DT.

A good process. I do the same except much less equipment. Only a heater and an air stone for gas exchange. I do generally use a ammonia alert badge. I use a new air stone, and air tubing, and alert badge with every transfer. I have two heaters so I change heaters with every transfer. Equipment must be cleaned - tap water is ok and air dried for at least 24 hour.

I use a pump to empty the tank so the pump and the tubing are also cleaned with tap water and dry for 24 hours.

When transfering the fish transfer as little water as possible. Whether with a colander or net let most of the water drip off .

Often the place where you get the fish may have bee using 1.017 water. I always check the sg of the water in the shipping bag and make sure the first tank matches and then bring sg up about .02 per transfer.

I treat with Prazio Pro on two of the transfers.

I have done tangs in a 10 gallon. They were relatively small.

 

[hogfanreefer]

A good process. I do the same except much less equipment. Only a heater and an air stone for gas exchange. I do generally use a ammonia alert badge. I use a new air stone, and air tubing, and alert badge with every transfer. I have two heaters so I change heaters with every transfer. Equipment must be cleaned - tap water is ok and air dried for at least 24 hour.

I use a pump to empty the tank so the pump and the tubing are also cleaned with tap water and dry for 24 hours.

When transfering the fish transfer as little water as possible. Whether with a colander or net let most of the water drip off .

Often the place where you get the fish may have bee using 1.017 water. I always check the sg of the water in the shipping bag and make sure the first tank matches and then bring sg up about .02 per transfer.

I treat with Prazio Pro on two of the transfers.

I have done tangs in a 10 gallon. They were relatively small.

Great points on limiting the water transfer and the matching the SG to the shipping SG and bringing up a little with each transfer.

Usually by the time I make it to my cycled QT I'm a little below the 1.026 that my DT is at. I usually just turn the ATO on my cycled QT off and top off with 1.026 water until it's up, then turn my ATO back on.

 

[aquamann183]

Thank you both, you have really helped a lot so far!
A couple more questions.

My 40B has a couple clownfish in it, live rock, live sand, and a few corals. Would this still work? Or should it not have other fish, or no rock, etc.?

Do I need to drip acclimate if I raise the SG each transfer? Or is that a low enough amount that it will be okay?

With the quarantine tank, is there an amount of time between quarantining fish? Maybe that is what you meant about leaving the tank fallow for 72 days..Seems like a long time to add more fish if you do them one at a time. Lol.

Is it okay to do multiple fish at a time if they're smaller?

You both seem like a 10 gallon tank is on the small side to ttm a Tang. What is a more acceptable size?

Since you clean all equipment with water and let sit for a day to dry..do you then fill it back up and let it sit empty for a day to match the temp and things like that, or do you just add water to the next tank immediately before switching the fish?

Any thing to try not to do? I'm just curious why people kill fish using this method.

Thanks again guys!


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[hkgar]

Thank you both, you have really helped a lot so far!
A couple more questions.

My 40B has a couple clownfish in it, live rock, live sand, and a few corals. Would this still work? Or should it not have other fish, or no rock, etc.?
NOt sure what you mean? 40B for a TTM tank?

Do I need to drip acclimate if I raise the SG each transfer? Or is that a low enough amount that it will be okay? No need to drip acclimate. a .02 difference won't harm. Search for the stick "Death in bags

With the quarantine tank, is there an amount of time between quarantining fish? Maybe that is what you meant about leaving the tank fallow for 72 days..Seems like a long time to add more fish if you do them one at a time. Lol. The 72 days is to rid a tank that has Ick of the Ick. It needs to be fish free during the fallow period. I QT for two weeks after TTM than into DT they go.

Is it okay to do multiple fish at a time if they're smaller?Yes, I often do, and have done 4 small fish at one time

You both seem like a 10 gallon tank is on the small side to ttm a Tang. What is a more acceptable size?A 10 gallon should be fine ror new tangs, unless they are older and large.

Since you clean all equipment with water and let sit for a day to dry..do you then fill it back up and let it sit empty for a day to match the temp and things like that, or do you just add water to the next tank immediately before switching the fish?
I immediately clean all equipment put it in an old salt bucket and set in front of a fan. after 48 hours I set it up for the next transfer with the heater and air-stone to match temperature.

Any thing to try not to do? I'm just curious why people kill fish using this method.Most new fish, particularly those that are shipped die as a result of people doing a drip acclimation prior to introduction. The shipping water immediately becomes poisoned with ammonia after opening. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1959576

Thanks again guys!


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[hogfanreefer]

Excellent questions.

#1 My cycled QT is dedicated to quarantine only. No other fish. I actually have a 20 and a 29 gallon cycled QT one has a few small pieces of live rock to make grazers more comfortable.

#2 No need to drip acclimate IMO as long as the difference is small. I usually go up 0.001 at a time. Then match the cycled SG to the last TTM transfer and raise it gradually over the observation time.

#3 As far as the cycled tank going fallow, this is only if the fish goes in there before going through TTM and therefore not being assured to be void of ich. If I treat for observed velvet/brook the cycled tank goes fallow for 4 weeks.

#4 Multiple fish, I've done up to 3 medium fish at one time. The larger the fewer.

#5 I think the 10 gallon is fine for small tangs. I have a small H. biocellatus and a very small purple tang in QT right now and they are doing great!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cqpnTSALedE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#6 I transfer early in the morning before I leave for work. When I get home I empty and clean the equipment, then dry it as well as possible. The day before the next transfer I fill it back up as soon as I get home from work and make sure the temp and salinity are where I want them.

 

[hogfanreefer]

The reason I observe after TTM is that brook and velvet can sometimes take a while to appear. I recently had a problem with two wrasses I was QT ing. The day after TTM one came down with velvet and then the other. TTM only treats for ich!

 

[aquamann183]

Okay, so you're saying don't drip acclimate. Just match the salinity that the water is that the fish came in, let the fish adjust to the temperature, then put the fish into the tank.

What do you do personally for the qt tank? Do you have a cycled tank that you use, or do you do something to keep the ammonia down during the two weeks?

You use prazi pro, what about
Copper? You said you use prazi pro twice during the ttm. Do you do anything specific? Or just add the appropriate amount at the beginning of each transfer?

Thank you!!

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[aquamann183]

The reason I observe after TTM is that brook and velvet can sometimes take a while to appear. I recently had a problem with two wrasses I was QT ing. The day after TTM one came down with velvet and then the other. TTM only treats for ich!

Right, so you need at minimum a month before putting anything into the DT to make sure nothing besides ich "pops up".

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[hogfanreefer]

Okay, so you're saying don't drip acclimate. Just match the salinity that the water is that the fish came in, let the fish adjust to the temperature, then put the fish into the tank.

What do you do personally for the qt tank? Do you have a cycled tank that you use, or do you do something to keep the ammonia down during the two weeks?

You use prazi pro, what about
Copper? You said you use prazi pro twice during the ttm. Do you do anything specific? Or just add the appropriate amount at the beginning of each transfer?

Thank you!!

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The fish are only in each tank 72 hours. Generally ammonia is not an issue. You do need to monitor for it though. Don't over feed and limit size/quantity of fish and you shouldn't have any problems with ammonia during TTM.

No need to use copper unless you see signs of brook or velvet. Unfortunately those two diseases seem to be on the upswing lately.

Prazipro treatment is usually twice with 5-7 days between treatments, hence use in tanks 2 and 4 or as I do in the cycled QT during the observation after TTM.

 

[aquamann183]

Looks like I'll be buying some prazipro!
Do you have a special tank that is cycled and always ready for quarantine?
Is there any way to have a quarantine tank without it being cycled?


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[aquamann183]

Prazipro says the water needs to first be conditioned with ultimate or a combination of liquid buffered cloram-x and stress-x to remove chlorine and chromanies.

Do I need to do this as well?
Sorry for the dumb question, just never used it before.

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[hogfanreefer]

Looks like I'll be buying some prazipro!
Do you have a special tank that is cycled and always ready for quarantine?
Is there any way to have a quarantine tank without it being cycled?


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Sorry, I must not have explained it well. You don't need a cycled tank to do TTM. You set them up when you need them. They don't need to be cycled due to the short time the fish are in each tank.

I also keep a cycled tank that I use after TTM to observe and acclimate the fish to captive life. Mine is always set up but some people keep some ceramic media in their sump to have it always ready to go and set it up when they need it. I'm fortunate to have plenty of space to keep one. I think a permanent one is better but not mandatory.

Prazipro says the water needs to first be conditioned with ultimate or a combination of liquid buffered cloram-x and stress-x to remove chlorine and chromanies.

Do I need to do this as well?
Sorry for the dumb question, just never used it before.

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If you are using an appropriate RO/DI for your water source (and you should be for your DT) the chlorine and chloramines have already been removed.

 

[aquamann183]

Sorry, I must not have explained it well. You don't need a cycled tank to do TTM. You set them up when you need them. They don't need to be cycled due to the short time the fish are in each tank.

I also keep a cycled tank that I use after TTM to observe and acclimate the fish to captive life. Mine is always set up but some people keep some ceramic media in their sump to have it always ready to go and set it up when they need it. I'm fortunate to have plenty of space to keep one. I think a permanent one is better but not mandatory.



If you are using an appropriate RO/DI for your water source (and you should be for your DT) the chlorine and chloramines have already been removed.

Duh about the chlorine and chromamine, yes I'm using rodi water. Thanks! Lol.

Just trying to figure out what to do to have the cycled quarantine tank ready after the tank transfer method is complete.

How do you keep the quarantine tank cycled? With the ceramic media?

If I just have let's say a 20 gallon aquarium or something. What would be the minimum I would need to have a cycled tank? Can I use a hang on the back filter with biowheels like you do for freshwater? Or would I have to go the whole aquarium/sump route?

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[hogfanreefer]

My set up looks just like my non cycled TTM tanks except they are larger and the HOB filter is larger and filled to the brim with ceramic media. No sump, nothing complicated at all. To keep the bacterial filter intact just feed small amounts every so often. It actually stays competent a surprising amount of time withour fish in it.

I like the ceramic media a lot better than the bioballs.

This is the HOB I use.
https://www.amazon.com/AquaClear-70-Power-Filter-Listed/dp/B000260FUW

This is one choice for ceramic media.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xport-bio-biomedia-cubes-brightwell.html

 

[aquamann183]

My set up looks just like my non cycled TTM tanks except they are larger and the HOB filter is larger and filled to the brim with ceramic media. No sump, nothing complicated at all. To keep the bacterial filter intact just feed small amounts every so often. It actually stays competent a surprising amount of time withour fish in it.

I like the ceramic media a lot better than the bioballs.

This is the HOB I use.
https://www.amazon.com/AquaClear-70-Power-Filter-Listed/dp/B000260FUW

This is one choice for ceramic media.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xport-bio-biomedia-cubes-brightwell.html

Ahh okay, I see.
How long does that tank need to be up and running the ceramic media before it's "cycled"? Or is it pretty much good to go from the moment you set it up?

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[hogfanreefer]

You cycle it just like you are doing for your DT or any other tank. If the media has been in the sump of a cycled tank for a while it will be shorter but with new media and seeding it with bacteria (Dr Tims, Microbacter7, etc.) it could take a few weeks.

 

[aquamann183]

Okay, sounds good. And you're saying once it's cycled it stays good for the most part? Do I have to change the media often or do water changes?

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[aquamann183]

I have a 46g bowfront that has a hob filter, heater, etc..And I could just use that, I was going to break it down anyways. Lol.

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