Understanding RGB LED - Mythbusting

Kolognekoral

New member
With all the hype going on with RGB (red, green, blue) LED combinations, I wanted to take a moment and explain some of the mythology associated with this approach. I know we are all fascinated by a potential magic bullit.

First, we need to understand what light is and what light LEDs produce. Most of us know that visible light is but a splinter of the electromagnetic spectrum, which includes wavelengths such as infra red (heat) to gamma radiation (destroys living tissues). LEDs are a technology that can produce very specific radiation wavelengths. We are familiar with the current favourites such as Royal Blue (450nm), Blue (470nm) and Cool White (a phosphor LED with a mixed spectrum peaking elatively low in the yellow-green and high in the royal blue). These are all within the photosynthetic spectrum, often called PAR (photosynthetic active radiation). This is essentially visible light. Depending on the organism, various parts of this spectrum are utilized for their photosynthesis. This is an evolutionary adaptation which allow the organism to thrive in its given environments. Needless to say, the actual parts of the PAR spectrum utilized can vary greatly. Land plants utilize most of the red to far red spectrum, as well as the blue to UV spectrum. Sea plants, such as zooxanthellate alga, use mainly the blue spectrum, as this is most abundant in shallow seas. The red is simply filtered out in the first few meters of water and thus not available for photosynthesis.

Now, this demarcates the area of useful radiations for any given environment, which we often refer to as PUR (photosynthetic utilized radiation). For our marine aquariums, this embraces the spectrum from about 530nm down to 380nm, of which most of the PUR is between 400nm-500nm with strong peaks at about 410nm and 450nm, give or take a little. This makes radiations outside of this spectrum less interesting for our corals and most other creatures found on the average reef, which is typically 10m deep or more (the exception being tidal reef tops, of course).

Now, with this base information in mind, let us look at RGB lighting. We can simply say we have radiations at 470nm (blue), 530nm (green) and 630nm (red) from the get go. Of these, the blue is the most usefull for corals, although it peaks a bit high. Many animals do use this spectrum and it does enhance many fluorescent pigments. A definite win for the aquarium. The green radiation comes on the border of usefull radiation. For photosynthesis, it is largely useless, but for the production of certain pigments or at least their fluorescence, it is usefull. On the other side of the coin, it starts the range of cynanobacteria PUR, which then runs up into the yellow. It is a radiation to enjoy in smaller amounts and with some caveats. Now, the red, at 630nm, is at the start of the classic land PUR for very shallow water life forms. It will encourage certain alga, but, interestingly enough, will actually restrict the populations of zooxanthellae in a coral! (this may be guild related). An interesting quality. In very large amounts, it could potnetially damage or even kill a coral via bleaching, while in controlled amounts will aid in modeling the colour of corals via this zooxanthellae restriction. It is an area that needs to be better researched.

OK, this alls sounds fascinating, but what about all the cool colour blends one can create with an RGB set-up? Yes, with these colours one can visually mix any given colour (within reason, as colour is a bit more complex) for their aquarium. Our eyes will be quite happy with the results. However, to attain the humanly aesthetic results, we are tricking ourselves into believeing that our corals are getting what we see. Let me explain.

Our eyes will mix received radiation and create colours that are radiation-wise not there. For a simple example, a combination of red and blue light will appear violet to our eyes. This is not violet radiation! If we analyze the spectrum, we will find that it is still a combination of 450nm and 630nm, not a true violet at 420nm! The same is true for any visual colour effect mixed via this method. It is the same thing we see in printed materia, where we are using cyan, yellow and magenta with black to create the entire rainbow. Our eyes are tricking us into see what we have lead them to see. Actually, a very cool thing, as, without this, colour printing would be close to impossible. Many will remember from school tha the cones in our eyes detect specific groups of radiation with preference, creating wehat we call trichomatic vision. The cone receptors of our retina interpret blue-violet, green and yellow-orange (red) wavelengths into the complete rainbow or possible colours. Of course, our corals do not see the world through our eyes and, with a RGB spectrum are missing much of the vital radiation they need to fill their PUR spectrum. The bottom line is: if the radiations are not produced by the light source, it is simply not there! Regarless of what our eyes are trying to relate to us.

This is not to say that RGB is a bad thing, simply that one must understand what one actually has. As a supplement to a good PUR spectrum, it does allow the aquarist more scope in mixing the aesthetic. It does not substitute for missing parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.

If you have questions, do ask. Many of the obvious questions can be better answered with a Google search, where you will find in-depth discussions of human vision and the visible spectrum, as well as PUR and PAR.
 
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Cologne thank you for a very nice and insightful read...

I never really expected RGB to cover all spectrums but I would think it is definitely a step in the right direction when compared to our more traditional LED units. Nor would I contend that adding every spectrum is more beneficial but simply brings us closer to a more natural condition in the most un natural type of environment. At this point in time RBG would seem the next logical step from W-B mixes. I believe as humans science is really just mans feeble attempt to define what was created. There by placing us at an automatic disadvantage since no matter how many test we run or spectrums we understand we will never have total compreshension of the created world around us.

again I applaud the information presented but I must ask; whats your personal feelings on the introduction of RGB? From your understanding, at what levels will these minor spectral additions begin to be filtered out?

take care
 
Our eyes will mix received radiation and create colours that are radiation-wise not there. For a simple example, a combination of red and blue light will appear violet to our eyes. This is not violet radiation! If we analyze the spectrum, we will find that it is still a combination of 450nm and 630nm, not a true violet at 420nm!

Great Read,
Most LEDs house a single internal die, and produce one narrow band primary optical wavelength. On the other hand RGB LED contains three separate dies, each emitting a different wavelength. RGB LED package has three isolated anodes and cathodes and the dies are packed in a very small package in close proximity of each other to help produce a multicolor LED that defuses different colors and ultimately tetra-chromatic white light. So as stated previously by Clongecoral you are merely color blending rather than producing the actual spectrum your eyes is tricking you to perceive!
Another point is that by simple multi-channel blending you are merely producing a given color that is perceived to be that color by human eye and rather an optical illusion.
Even using an RGB LED utilizing single channel switching you can only produce 7 colors and to generate additional colors each channel of the RGB must be manipulated for the output instead of reduction and/ or increase of current through the said channel.
This can be achieved by PWM and different combination of duty cycle within the one RGB LED package.
It seems like some manufacturers are calling their fixtures RGB when in actual fact the mix of the produced light and the proximity of the source of each light to each other will not enable the fixture to become an actual full color fixture and rather a marketing gimmick.
In case of Radion this is apparent since they are using total of 17 LEDs per pad and each pad has 2 Red and 2 green along with 5 RB, 4Blue and 4 whites running at different mA values. Further to that these are all in different packages and in no way shape of form can be called RGB or produce the same optical bandwidth that an RGB LED can produce.
While certain colors can help with overall color rendering of total composed spectrum output, the RGB claim made by these manufacturers is simply nonsense!
Cheers
Dave
 
Interesting read. There are always problems with trying to reproduce the vast array of conditions nature can throw at us in an artificial environment. The best we can do is try to understand as much as we can but even that is often inadequate. Corals are a particularly complex problem due to the fact that we are dealing with and animal which contains a symbiotic algae within. The OP touches on this with the mention of pigments which if I'm understanding correctly act as a way to shield the algae from too much light but has the desirable affect of "coloring up" a coral. The problem with having the external controlling organism being an animal is that PUR and PAR might not really be of much importance to it superficially, it may only react to light intensity or duration etc. The zooxanthellate contained w/in the animal are very concerned with PUR and PAR but they are at the mercy of their animal host. We know far too little to say with certainty that we really know all the intricacies of this relationship.

One example of what I'm saying here would be the intricate patterns that terrestrial flowers reflect in the UV. From the strict biologic and photosynthetic standpoint these UV bulls-eyes have very little to do with the day to day processes of the plant and the plant could probably do fine in no UV light at all. Without those UV marking however the species might suffer as the insects that can see the UV might pass them over to pollinate some other more appealing plant.

I think the warnings of the OP should be given some thought but there are always limitations to how well we can reproduce nature in our homes. No light was ever perfect before the LED and it will probably be a long time before any are. The quest for RGB LED lighting is probably no different than any other new technology in the hobby but in the end its all one big experiment and the best thing we can do with our eyes is not to attempt to gauge LUX or spectrum or any other quality of the light we are using but to look at the creatures we are trying to make thrive and determine if we are doing that or not. I just look at LED RGB as an attempt to round out what has traditionally been a much more narrow spectrum light source. People who were good at reef husbandry before will likely be so after and will probably make the best determination of what works and what doesn't.
 
Cologne thank you for a very nice and insightful read...

From your understanding, at what levels will these minor spectral additions begin to be filtered out?

take care

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you wondering about their actual benefit to the corals? Or their ability to penetrate the water column?
 
I should point out, before this goes way off into another direction, that my original post was not aimed at discrediting the use of RGB. I simply wish the prospective user to undestand what is actually involved.

RGB will not create a true full spectrum as the radiation is not there from the start.

RGB will create the illusion of a full spectrum for our eyes. Corals don't have eyes!

The difference lies in the usage of this illusion. If you have an organism that requires 500nm to survive, it will not recieve this part of the spectrum from a RGB combi, as it is simply not there. At this point in time we can only provide this with a white phosphor LED and then in small amounts. RGB will not substitute for what is not actually there.
 
Just like the stunners you will be able to get great color by using them to accent your tank. I have 3 x 250 watt Metal Halides to light my tank but I can not run them 12 hours a day so I added 6 blue stunners and run them. My Mother in law who has seen my aquariums for 27 years and never said anything told me on Saturday "Wow your tank looks awesome" with only the blue stunners running. I have a RGB and controller coming in this week from my LFS and can't wait to put it on my 40 gallon to add some pop to my T5 lighting. Back to the original post, people worry too much sometimes about getting a ton of PAR from there lamps and now we find out PAR in not everything. Coralvue 12K Reeflux are a perfect example, people use to complain because they did not do well with a PAR meter but yet with my corals looked and grew great.
 
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Now, the red, at 630nm, is at the start of the classic land PUR for very shallow water life forms. It will encourage certain alga, but, interestingly enough, will actually restrict the populations of zooxanthellae in a coral! (this may be guild related). An interesting quality. In very large amounts, it could potnetially damage or even kill a coral via bleaching, while in controlled amounts will aid in modeling the colour of corals via this zooxanthellae restriction. It is an area that needs to be better researched.

is the wavelength of red LED in this spectrum?
If so, is using red leds harmful to the corals?
if this is true then should the red LEDs in the new Radions be turned off or changed?
is this reference if we use only red light on the tank?
 
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I think it's also good to make the distinction between people who are looking to provide the full spectrum for the growth of corals, and people who are looking to enhance the colour rendition for their viewing pleasure.

taking the radion as an example, I've always assumed that the white and blue LEDs are the ones providing the bulk of the coral growing power, while the red and green LEDs are there more to make the aquarium pleasing to look at. Some people really enjoy the very blue look of traditional W/B LED aquariums, and people have had great success with growing corals in them. Just like some people really enjoy the way 20K halide bulbs look. But there are other people who want to see something a little more optically balanced (from the human perception point of view) when they look in their tank.

If high levels of red light can actually harm corals, the real challenge from an aesthetic point of view will be finding the balance between maximizing colour renditions that are pleasing to look at, and providing the right environment for growth.

However, I agree that people should not be fooled about what their light is doing and what they're getting, so the decision to go 'RGB' as it's currently available in LED technology should be made knowing why it is that you're doing what you're doing. If growth can be maintained by the white and blue bulbs, and the red/green is at a level that doesn't harm anything, there's nothing wrong with adding other colours that trick your eye in to seeing other colours that aren't technically there.
 
is the wavelength of red LED in this spectrum?
If so, is using red leds harmful to the corals?
if this is true then should the red LEDs in the new Radions be turned off or changed?
is this reference if we use only red light on the tank?

OK, one shouldn't fear the use of red radiation, but one should understand that it has certain effects that are not yet completely understood. There is an article on the other big US forum from Dana Riddle, where he noted bleaching under red LEDs, which were very close to the coral. These were simply small <1Watt numbers, well before high output LEDs. (there have been other references over the last decade) I have repeated this experiment in a more modern setting, using the Vertex Red auxilliary pad (4x 630nm Cree LEDs @ 50%). In side of two weeks I noted paling of Montiporas and a few weeks later on other corals, such as Acropora and Favids. This was not life threatening, as I monitored the corals daily, but, left to itself, strong red auxilliary lighting is quite capable of damaging certain corals, assumedly those that are not evolved to the red light found at the extreme reef top. Don't forget, at about 3 meters under the surface, there is little or no red spectrum left. The water has filtered it out. Most corals we keep are from regions this deep or deeper and not used to red radiation. Despite the advantages of a fuller spectrum for colour rendition, we must not forget this may not be at all to the corals liking.

In the end, most corals are very adaptive and will find a way to survive, if its in its genetics. Still, I am regularly contacted by aquarists that have burned their corals by over illuminating them, regardless of the lighting source. As I have not used the new Radions, I cannot comment, but I must assume the company knows what it is doing and wouldn't market a potential coral klller! They do look very nice.

As I am still using red lighting over half of my main reef, I am not yet done with researching. After I can better judge the possible effects of the red LEDs, I will probably add another auxilliary pad to my Illumina. I find it is an interesting way to model the colour of the corals. I do have a small fear that many aquarists may try to use red light to cover-up their higher nutrient levels, as the radiation will reduce the zooxanthellae and give the illusion of a ULNS tank. We are only kidding ourselves in this scenario. Correct lighting is only part of the answer to getting a healthy, thriving reef aquarium.

Jamie
 
I think it's also good to make the distinction between people who are looking to provide the full spectrum for the growth of corals, and people who are looking to enhance the colour rendition for their viewing pleasure.

taking the radion as an example, I've always assumed that the white and blue LEDs are the ones providing the bulk of the coral growing power, while the red and green LEDs are there more to make the aquarium pleasing to look at. Some people really enjoy the very blue look of traditional W/B LED aquariums, and people have had great success with growing corals in them. Just like some people really enjoy the way 20K halide bulbs look. But there are other people who want to see something a little more optically balanced (from the human perception point of view) when they look in their tank.

If high levels of red light can actually harm corals, the real challenge from an aesthetic point of view will be finding the balance between maximizing colour renditions that are pleasing to look at, and providing the right environment for growth.

However, I agree that people should not be fooled about what their light is doing and what they're getting, so the decision to go 'RGB' as it's currently available in LED technology should be made knowing why it is that you're doing what you're doing. If growth can be maintained by the white and blue bulbs, and the red/green is at a level that doesn't harm anything, there's nothing wrong with adding other colours that trick your eye in to seeing other colours that aren't technically there.

You hit the nail on the head!
 
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you wondering about their actual benefit to the corals? Or their ability to penetrate the water column?

I was asking about their ability to penetrate the water in such small quantities.


how do you feel about their ability to penetrate the water column or rather lack of ability since they are filtered out first. Wouldnt using a small balance of radiation outside of Faux white(bleached blue) and blue LEDs be beneficial. Also, in their latest applications they seemed to be used in small numbers, thereby mitigating negative effects. I might be totally wrong but I think small scale hobbyist lighting wont penetrate well enough to show to show measurable negative effects. This is entirely a hunch so please do keep us informed on your personal observations.
 
You hit the nail on the head!

Ditto....controlling rgb levels for visual or photo use is a great idea, copy that a GREAT IDEA, however for coral growth and health the focus should be on beneficial light. I am new to led tech but I will be very careful about red levels...most corals do not live at a depth where the red spectrum can even pass. IMO there is not enough green light in most led color schemes....subscribed!
 
People have been using Red light over their tanks for a long time.
Such as the T5 bulbs from ATI or KZ.
When used in moderation you should not have any issue.
The nm of the Red used is also important, if you remeber with the ATI bulb it took them a few generations to get it right.
 
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