Unusual bangaii pair ?

[David M]

Seems to be a lot of interest here in bangaii's so I thought you would get a kick out of this. I used to breed them but stopped because they require too much space and don't produce that many fry, IOW you can get a lot more clowns per gallon/ per year My pairs wanted a 40 gallon tank all to themselves, we have discussed this elsewhere.

Anyway I have a local guy who gave me some babies about a year ago which he captured in his reef tank. Then a few weeks ago he pulled the male and induced release so I got 23 of them. This plus all the threads has renewed my interest. I have never seen the pair or his tank. He has decided to give me the pair so as to maximize fry survival, very considerate guy who is more concerned about the fish than himself. I started to ask questions and to my surprise he told me his "reef tank" is a 20 long !!!! I am stunned, but it gets better. It seems the only feeding they get is frozen brine shrimp, twice per week :eek1: Never in a million years would I expect a pair of bangaii's to breed under these conditions, this must be an exceptional pair

I plan to try the egg stripping and hatching jar technique, got my Boston CD all ready :smokin:

Another option, I have a 4 year old male left over from my own stock, maybe I could try passing the female back & forth between the two males as some people have done.

Also I have 4 of my friends stock at just about a year now starting to mature, a dominant male has emerged. I think it's 3 boys & 1 girl but maybe not, I should know soon enough.

So I guess I'm gonna be a bangaii breeder again

 

[FMarini]

rock on....
best of luck w/ your re-newed endevor. Actually if you can make an egg tumbler you'll have little problem w/ eggs raising after stripping. Now that Stephen from coral dynamics has demonstrated is utility (I only presented the idea 2 yrs back- Guy W was also in on that), i think its the way to go for this species

 

[David M]

Frank, I have some kreisels I made up for dottyback eggs, think they might work just as well? This photo is the prototype I made out of a tupperware bowl The one I use now is a section of 8" pvc pipe.

 

[David M]

BTW if you adjust the air just right the egg mass pretty much rolls in suspension right where you see it in the pic.

 

[Coraldynamics]

Welcome back to the bangaii arena David! That kreisel looks like it would work for bangaii (or any egg mass) IMO. I was concerned with my tumbler that I was using too much force. They do tend to bounce off the outside wall more than I care for.

 

[Coraldynamics]

I got so interested in your kreisel, I forgot what I was gonna post in the first place...regarding space for bangaii pairs.

I think the small tank stigma has more to do with the pappa holding to term. Since you are planning on stripping the eggs early I don't think the space constraints will apply. They should continue breeding in smaller spaces...just up to you to strip the eggs when your ready.

I have pulled them on day 5 and day 3 with success...the current batch was removed from the pappa the same day he started holding... So as Frank says...the male may not be a big player in the game past his 30 second stint fertilizing the eggs.

sorry for the long post.

 

[spk]

David,

Sounds good, another Bangaii breeder out there. Perhaps we can reduce the numbers that are pulled from the wild every year.

Steve

 

[David M]

I know I have read posts from someone who has two males/ one female and swithces them back and forth. What do you guys think about that ? I have this HUGE male at 4yrs+, never seen another bangaii this size.

 

[Coraldynamics]

I think that would be fine. According to Frank...when the female has eggs, there are more than one male can hold normally. Some of my video footage shows the male with a huge mouthfull and the female wanting to deliver more... Two males might do the trick per spawn or by alternating.

Now if you are going to pull the eggs early...switching males becomes a moot point. The reason to swap them out would be to allow one to rest and feed while the next brood is held by the second male. Stripping the eggs means he can eat and stay healthy while the eggs are incubated elsewhere.

Get another female and have two pairs....

 

[David M]

I agree, not much point in the trio if I pull the eggs, but...

"Get another female and have two pairs...." is NOT so easy Where the heck am I going to find a mature healthy female bangaii ???

Of the four yearlings I have I'm afraid it's 3 males & 1 female, but maybe...

 

[donnyt]

egg tumbler

egg tumbler

I really could use some help with an egg tumbler as I am having trouble not only with banghai's but also striped cardinals, margaritafora cardinals, and blue eyed cardinals. Everyone keeps laying and picking up eggs, but nobody is carrying to term. My striped cardinals were in copper at the lfs for about 6 mos. before I got them and I was wondering if that had an impact? She lays eggs every 8 days like clockwork. Could or rather would someone help me with the design of the tumbler or directions to make my own. I have tried several different ones to no avail. Thanks.

 

[David M]

The kreisel pictured above should work, if you can scrounge up some 6 or 8" pvc it's better. The flaws with the one pictured: that fitting I used where the airline comes in is no good, the dottyback egg mass gets caught on it. Same problem with the edges of the screen over the hole. For individual eggs it may not be an issue. The one I use now is 8" pvc with a 1/4" hole drilled in the side and a piece of airline glued in so it is flush with the inner surface, nothing gets caught. The front is an acrylic panel and the back is entirely covered in mesh, again no edges for the nest to get caught on. For more ideas log on to seahorse.org and search for "nursery" or "kreisel". The standard cheapo design is a plastic fishbowl but sometning perfectly round works better.

OR you can just buy the "hatching jar" from AES for about $30.

 

[Coraldynamics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7239854#post7239854 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by David M

Where the heck am I going to find a mature healthy female bangaii ???

Let me grow out a few...and then I will have one for you.

 

[David M]

IME it takes a year for them to sexually mature I have 23 at a few weeks old... that is a pretty long wait

I do have the 4 at 11 months just starting to show heirarchy, maybe I should give the female to the older male rather than her sib, makes more sense for several reasons I think. Maybe I will get lucky and there will be two females in there, but it's not looking good.

 

[Yhee]

what do you do with all you Bangaii offspring? Do LFS buy them?

 

[David M]

I used to sell to lfs but haven't raised any in a few years. If I start again I will try to retail as many as possible rather than take lfs pennies for them

 

[Coraldynamics]

At another board, Frank spoke on the age thing...

"in the wild 4 months old banngai carrying eggs have been observed. in the home aquarium between 6-8 mon is not uncommon "

That is just to say you don't have to wait that long to try and pair them up...

 

[FMarini]

david- how do you evacuate that air bubble trapped at the top?
For a while I had 6 males and 2 females and i did the swap around thing, while 1 male was holding i placed the female into another section w/ a new male. I don't recall exactly how frequently females had eggs, but its was pretty quick. problem is in our home aquarium a female will synchonize w/ her mate, so she'll start to produce only after 20+ days. This slows down the system tremndously. Might want to reread the 97 reefs.org article

Stephen- Glad to hear things are going along swimmingly. I still believe males are unimportant past 30sec after fertilization, and the best news is your gonna prove it for me. Picts please from days 1 to day 20. Kidding- not
frank

 

[David M]

That is not an air bubble Frank, that is the surface of the water. The top is cut open and the whole thing clamped in place at just the right level in the tank. This way the bubbles entering the side burst and disipate at the surface but the current produced is strong enough to cross the surface and go down the other side.

As for the 4 month or 6-8 month mature bangaii's that is not my experience at all. A few years ago I kept two groups of sibs well past market size just to see when they would breed. In both cases I did not see any social or sexual dynamics until just about 11-12 months, at which point a dominant male emerged and chose a mate. In one case he killed a rival male and held the remaining fish (except his girlfriend) subdued in a corner. When I removed that pair another male rose to power and the cycle repeated with him choosing a mate. I am now seeing the same thing with these 4 fish at 11 months now. So IME sexual maturity comes at just about a year at my house

 

[FMarini]

David- Thanks for the explaination . I can see the water surface now and it makes better sense.
In regards to your delayed sexual maturity, it is frequently a response to reduced nutrition and physcial size in fish. A number of fish must reach a certain size before they reach sexual maturity and I'm wondering if for some strange reason your fish are not reaching that critical size. Are your fish smaller than normal? or are you feeding them anything that appears to be stunting their growth, or maybea food that is deviod of a critical nutrient
Just thinking out loud. But 1 yr sexual maturity on these fish is not the norm