Wanatabei angel not swiming anymore :(

E

EnderG60

Plumbing Engineer
Ok something is very wrong now an im very worried.

I came home this weekend and found my angle on the bottom of the tank. He had been missing the day before as well. He was breathing normal, but is either having alot of trouble swimming or sitting on the bottom. And he is not eating.

This morning he seems to be struggling to swim, and is breathing heavyer.

Im very worried here..I already grabbed him and moved him to my 15g which has no other fish in it. but what can I do?
 
Nothing I am afraid. Sounds like a swim bladder problem which is mostly not to cure. This angel is a deep water species and therefore more often then other fish suffers from this.
 
I hate to say it, but it doesn't look good. Angels are not known for "laying" around like a Blue Tang. When it tries to swim, does it have trouble staying up right?

Peter beat me to it. I was thinking swim blatter problem as well.
 
Well if he will eat, I'd soak some food in antibiotics & prazipro at alternating meals. (Something like dried whole brine shrimp) . The prazipro only needs one feeding a day for a couple of days if he gets alot of it but he should have antibiotics twice a day.

If he won't eat, I am at a loss.

Usually fish with swim bladder problems have trouble keeping from floating up and swim nose down or wedge themselves in rocks to keep from floating up -- has yours done any of this?
 
i thought he would be past a swim bladder problem since ive had him over 5 months now, but for the last 2 weeks he had been doing tail stands at the surface which I posted about and came to the conclusion he was looking for food(since id been feeding flake as part of his diet)

when he does swim its frantic and usually nose up as if he is trying to stay afloat.

he is not eating as of now...is there anyway i can force feed him or medicate him?

as of tonight he is still alive, but still on the bottom breathing a bit more rapid but not about not on the brink of death totally stressed out heavy.

I really dont want to loose this fish as he is by far the best looking specimen i have seen!:(
 
I'm so sorry about your fish - about all you can do is seriously complain to the source and let them know you don't plan on buying anymore fish from them until they are more careful what they are buying (improperly collected fish resulting in swim bladder damage)-- if you do so, they will give you any number of explanations why it's not their fault - it's just excuses
 
It sounds like he is having trouble staying in a horizontal position which would also lead me to think it was a bladder problem. It may be a tumor growing on the bladder that is causing this; something that would be completely out of your hands.
 
I got him from work and can totally say its not thier fault at all, he stayed there untill he was eating and swiming about happily(specifily watching for badder problems) he had a sore scale spot for about a week(im guessing form the degassing) but was fine after that. We have had other pairs of these fish with no problems other then the usuall few that dont make the 3 day shipping and such.

If its out of my hands so be it, but if its something i can help by force feeding him some medication ill try it, just let me know what might help and how i might go about getting it in him.
 
what is your temp and oxygenation like? When fish get oxygen deprived, they can loose a lot of equlibrium issues. When he swims, does he also occasionally run into things? Theres not much you can do about this either, as much oxygen deprivation injuries are permanent, but good luck.
 
oxygen deprivation should hurt the larger fish first. IS this your largest fish? Did you have a period where circulation was down, but lights were still illuminated? I once had a tank where I was working on plumbing, so I cut off the circulation, but left the lights on, because I anticipated only a 20 minute work time. Well, it turned into 8 hours, and a couple hours in, I turned off all the lights when I realized I was in for the long haul, but my largest fish (an angelfish) showed synmptoms kinda like what you are saying- lethargy, equilibrium issues, rapid respiration, etc. He last only about 20 more hours before dying.
Im not saying this is it, but something to consider.
 
i thought he would be past a swim bladder problem since ive had him over 5 months now
Click to expand...
Sorry - I think I misunderstood this statement - I took it to mean he somehow survived 5 mo. with this problem.

I suppose you've tried all sorts of foods -- you could gut load some live brine with medication :(

What other fish have you got? Some will be less effected by low O2 than others. Also if one fish is also dealing with a parasite(s) he may shows signs of O2 deprivation when the others don't.
 
yes he is not my largest fish, the engineer goby is about 2x longer and no there has not been any time the circulation was off.

I have a sailfin tang, engineer goby, two percs, 12 line wrass, mandarine, flame hawk and 3 cromis as well. everyone else is fine.

Yeah ive given him lots of different foods and he would eat everything i put in there...he had been doing great up untill 2 weeks ago when he started the tail stands, his color was getting even better and he had grown some streamers on this tail!

Since he is not eating how would i go about feeding him? and what medications should i try?
 
I just tried to squirt some brine in his mouth and he just spit it back out, any other way i can get him to eat??
 
Well I just attended a lecture involving anesthesia and tube feeding of fish, but i don't feel qualified to help anyone try it.

If you've got him anaesthetized, you might as well give him an antibiotic shot

Here's a link to Kelly Jedlicki's forum she could help you out with this as well as diagnosis also

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx

HTH :(
 
I would not try to anesthetize ANY compromised animal. Ender, it sounds as if you have ruled out all but some swim bladder malady, which there is no real cure for. I would be VERY CAUTIOUS about throwing meds into a tank to try to treat something your not sure is there. I know its not much help, but you dont want to harm everything else in addition. If you haven't done this already, get him to a treatment tank with clean, well oxygenated water, and you could try metronidazole, which is a good broad spectrum agent. But, Im just spitballing, we ahve no true diagnosis for your fish.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8275412#post8275412 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
I would not try to anesthetize ANY compromised animal. Ender, it sounds as if you have ruled out all but some swim bladder malady, which there is no real cure for. I would be VERY CAUTIOUS about throwing meds into a tank to try to treat something your not sure is there. I know its not much help, but you dont want to harm everything else in addition. If you haven't done this already, get him to a treatment tank with clean, well oxygenated water, and you could try metronidazole, which is a good broad spectrum agent. But, Im just spitballing, we ahve no true diagnosis for your fish.
Click to expand...
Would you anesthetize a healthy animal?

jmaneyapanda -
Stop picking on my posts - lol You should go and defend me on those threads in the breeding forum with the guy who thinks 2 flames in a 24 is a good idea.

EnderG - Seriously - I'm so sorry about your fish - I hope you try that link above to Kelly Jedlicki - she knows more about treating sick fish than anyone else I can think of.
 
angel fish- I live to pick on your posts! Just joking. I do a lot of work with wildlife and chemical immobilization, and the first principle to consider is if the animals body and system can withstand the stress of chemical anaesthetic. In significantly compromised animals, the answer is usually no, as the animal likely wont recover from sedation.

give me the link to the thread hat says 24 gallons is good for breeding marines, and i'll bring the cavalry- well me, anyway.
 
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