What are my odds? (lighting)

[DMBillies]

I'm upgrading to a standard 90 gallon (about 120 total volume with sump) in a couple of months and I'm trying to figure out my lighting. I'd like to get metal halides, but there is just no way I can afford a chiller on top of the cost of the upgrade. I'd like to get 2 x 250 watts to go in the hood but understand that I am pushing my luck with heat. How much am I pushing my luck? Would doing 2 x 175 be a sure thing as far as no heat issues? I'd like to get input from people that have tried this and have either failed or succeeded with similar set-ups (and what modifications you may have made that helped). I am planning on using an eheim 1262 as a return and I'll have the option of plumbing in or out of the sump (though in will be significantly easier).

Also, I know it is never a good idea to cool your tank with your AC, but my house does not get above 72 ever... I'm a northerner and my body seems to think that I was nuts for leaving. So consider that in your response.

Thanks for any input

 

[Angela Short]

My 80 with 15 gallon sump gets to 83-84 if the sump fan isn't blowing. It stays 79-80 with it blowing and my temp in the house stays about 73-74 year round. I have duel 175's with 195 watts pc antics. I also have 4 PH's in the tank. I don'y hardly see how you can go to 250's without a chiller but everyones tank runs a little differant. I also have 2 fans in the hood which is very vented also... Hope this helps some.

 

[rm41400]

My 120 gal (150 gal total) tank with 2 400 watt mh needs a chiller. Otherwise it would run about 85 is my guess. Also consider your skimmers pump (heat output) and your powerheads. Also will your hood be open or closed during the day? I open mine up every morning and close it every night after the lights are out.

I am going to change over to (2) 250 watt mh and dont think I will need the chiller on my tank.

I think you could go without a chiller if you hung the pendents 10" off the water without a hood. Maybe a ceiling fan in the room.

hth

 

[cee]

If you can tolerate the evaporation, look into bong coolers. They're cheap, you can DIY them, and can be quite effective esp. if the air is relatively dry in your house. The over clocker computer guys use them to pull temps below ambient. Here's a link to explain the concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bong_cooler
The atomizer can be a plastic shower head as some people here have done.

Dave

 

[crumbletop]

I'm trying out 6x54W T5s in my 90. I was worried about the heat, and also didn't want to hassel with making a new canopy (much to c_stowers chagrin ). I just got them so I'll see how they do (I'm acclimating right now). Also, regarding the eheim 1262, I think that pump is too much for a standard 90 (single overflow). I had a 1262 and backed off to a 1250. A 1260 would probably be good too, especially since it sounds like you are going to have a lot of sump. If you are going to T off the return line and send some of the flow to a fuge or some other part of the sump, then a 1262 would probably be okay.

Jack

 

[gflat65]

Leave it to an engineer to figure how to cool the flame with a bong.

Interesting idea. How much daily top off would you expect from that much evaporation?

 

[Mobikob]

It would be tough to pull that one off, the heat will eventually catch up with you. You should try every trick in the book to keep it at bay, and then still be concerned.
Here are a few things I have tried on my 125 w/ 2x175mh, and 2x96pc. I did see a decrease in heat once I tried them. I did finally break down and buy a chiller too.

go topless
use a pendant or open hood
cooling fans on bulbs
fan on sump
external return pump
squid instead of powerheads
keep ambient temp low
low photo period

Right now my 36 gets up to 82 in the afternoon, with no chiller. My lights are on for a total of 11 hrs, 9 of MH. Keeping temp low in a tank with such little volume is tough. If you know the tricks to battle it, it can be done.

HTH
Mobi

 

[TitansFan]

If I could change one thing about my tank right now it would be moving all the pumps/powerheads I could out of my tank and sump. My tank so far this week has maxed at 79.9 degrees. I am considering a chiller because I would like togo to 250 watt halides. Below is my heat creators and my limited cooling effect. I am evaporating around 1.5 gallons a day. Maybe it will give you an idea of your heat adventures. In setting up my tank Doc said 250's would require a chiller in my situation. I believe him.

85 gallons volume of water
sump: quietone3000
Sedra 3500 (skimmer)
tank: seio m1100
seio m620
lighting: 2 x 175mh and 2 36 inch T5 bulbs
Fans: 1 cheap plastic fan blowing on sump (stand has open back)
2 4inch icecap fans in canopy (canopy has open back)

My tank is 3 feet from my house's thermometer this week's temp has been max 75 degrees in my house. If I removed all ph/pumps I think I could do 250mhs and be ok. A chiller will be the easier meathod... but $$$$.

HTH
Chris

 

[DMBillies]

Ok, so the consensus is that I'm probably not going to pull off the 250's unless I find a smoker who's looking to quit (definitely a "cool" idea... dum dum tish... I wonder how much of a problem the build-up issues would cause). It sounds like, with the 175's I may have a shot, but worrying about it all the time is a drain. I've been thinking about doing t5's to get around the heat issue a bit, but they seem so damn expensive in order to get the amount of light over the tank that I'd like (and call me vain, but I just love the shimmery look that halides give). That said, they would solve many of my problems and save me a bunch on the electric bill. Crumbletop, can I ask where you got yours and what you paid?

Thanks for the input guys (feel free to keep posting) and I'm sure I'll be looking for more as I continue to figure this stuff out.

 

[crumbletop]

Well it wasn't cheap, but it is way bright. 4x54W without reflectors is brighter than my 4x65W PCs _with_ reflectors. I got a Tek 6x54W retrofit kit with IceCap SLR reflectors from reefgeek.com. I'd recommend reading up a bit on these before you decide to go that route. There are lots of good threads on them in the lighting forum.

I paid $449, I think, for the 6 lights. They are on 3 ballasts and are normally driven. I didn't get the IceCap ballasts which would overdrive the lights. You are welcome to come over sometime and take a look at them to see what you think. I got 8 bulbs of different types to try out different combos. So far I'm really liking them.

Here is a link to the lights:
http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104069.html

I called them and had them swap out the tek reflectors for the IceCap SLR reflectors that are supposed to add 20% more PAR. I think it cost me $2/reflector to do that.

Here is the link to the reflectors:
http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104599.html

Supposedly with this setup I can keep anything I want at any level I want in my 90. I can tell you that it is way bright compared to my PCs.

Jack

 

[cee]

Gary:

3-5 gallons? If you've ever lived in the desert or studied the themodynamic properties of water, you realize there's a lot of heat that is required to cause water to go from a liquid to gaseous state. Heat going into the process equates to heat coming out of your aquarium. I would imagine it's so efficient that the fan would need to be on a themostat.

Dave

 

[Pickupman66]

DM,
I upgraded to 440 watt vho this past jan form 220pc. I had the pc's with no hood, and when I went to the vho, I made a custom full enclosure. my tank hovers right at 79-81 constantly. when the bulbs are on, I have 2 cooling fans blowing into each end of hte canopy. I lose close to a gallon a day, and even more in the dry winter months, but since I removed all powerheads and only have 2 sub pumps in the sump, and an external loop pump, heat so far has not been an issue. I have heard of DIY chillers using those tiny dorm fridges and some a coil of pressure line.

 

[fishdoc11]

Looking into T5 lights you might also look at this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=852587
Some people have been having unexplained problems with corals(mostly sps) lightening using T5 setups. Other people have great results. IMO the cheapest, most proven choice that will be most likely not to require a chiller is VHO. You could spend $100 more(including the 2 VHO's currently in the hood) and get an additional setup like this:
http://www.hellolights.com/22elarovhoba.html
Which would give you 4 110 watt VHO's total.
Or you could spend ~ $260(with bulbs) and get a 4 bulb retro like this:
http://www.hellolights.com/4654lamvhore.html

Another option would be the 4 bulb retro in addition to the 2 bulbs allready in there. This would be a total of 6 and IMO lots of corals would get really good color under this setup.

Also FWIW the Eheim 1262 has worked very well with this setup. A 1260 would save about 30 watts heat wise if you don't need that much flow through the sump(which I like).

Another FWIW is that the hood has 2 4" fans and is fairly well ventilated. I ran just the 250's without a sump(read submersable return and skimmer pumps) and the tank ran ~ 82F with ambient temps of 72 - 75F.

Hope that provides a little additional insight

Chris

 

[platax88]

I have a 90 gal - 120gal total volume and i run two 175 halides with no problem. I have them about 8 inches from the water and use a cheap 4" wallmart fan on the top of the canopy blowing out. My temp is 78 with no chiller.

Canopy is open on back and i think the key is the fan which pulls cool air from the opening in the back and blows hot air out the top.

I am using 2 175 watt 20K XM bulbs with no supplementation.

 

[gflat65]

I ran 175W with VHO's on a 55 and 75 for a while and my temp got up around 82 consistently, but the AC wasn't working very well (ambient inside temp was around 80). If you keep your house as cool as I'd like to (born in MD, but have family in Nordic country-Iowegian-so I am pretty hot blooded most of the time), you'd be fine with hood fans. However, depending on what you want to keep, 175's may not be enough for a 90... If you want to go sps, 250's will help coloring a little more. I'm running a 175W over my 20L QT and it gets pretty warm (once again, the new larger AC is not keeping the ambient down...). I'd like my house at 68-70, year round.

 

[Mikeyjer]

I run 2-175w SE MH along with 2-110w VHO actinics over my 55. I used to have heat issues until I start running a fan right beside it. I keep my house at a pretty cool temperature throughout the year and I've been able to keep the tank temp at 77-78
I'm gonna be running a retrofit over my 90g Bowfront with 2-250w SE MH XM-20k bulbs, let's see if I am able to keep my temp around 78 as well. Haven't got it up and going yet, been really busy with my new job. I hope to have it setup before the meeting so everyone can see. I have some painting job and wiring job to do....