What CP dose would you do for wrasses?

[blkg35]

Long story short, bought a PBT from a guy on this forum. I did not qt, trusted the guy when he said his fish was healthy and disease free. I ended up with velvet in my tank. Initially thought it was ich because of the sugar size white spots. Then a week later, some of the fishes started showing some white film like slime. Once that happen, I was losing 1-2 fish per day. Lost close to 20 wrasses from this. Once I knew it was velvet, I gave the remaining 5 wrasses a formalin bath. I setup an emergency qt tank with HOB filter, new ceramic media, and live rock rubbles from a friends established tank.
I'll be keeping an eye on ammonia and have plenty of water for water changes, also have Prime on hand. The tank is a 40gal but only using 27gal of water in it.

Just got my pharmacy grade CP today.
From all the threads I've been reading, the dosage should be 40mg/g. But I've also read that wrasses don't do well with CP. So my question is, what is the minimum dosage I can do to treat the wrasses that will still kill off the velvet?

Tonight, I just dose half the recommended dosage of 20mg/g to see if the wrasses will tolerate it. Will dose the other 20mg/g tomorrow if they're still alive.
They responded well after the formalin bath a few days ago and were swimming/breathing normally.

I also have cupramine and have used it in the past with other wrasses. They stopped eating after the 2nd-3rd day so I won't be using cupramine this time around.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

After all the stressed I went through this past week losing my wrasses, I went out and bought 2 15gal tanks, heaters, and sponge filter to setup a qt system. After all this is done, all new fishes will be qt'd the proper way. DT is currently fallow, will stay that way for 12 weeks.

 

[HumbleFish]

Tonight, I just dose half the recommended dosage of 20mg/g to see if the wrasses will tolerate it. Will dose the other 20mg/g tomorrow if they're still alive.

^^This seems like a good plan. 40mg/gal should get the job done. But if the wrasse stops eating, you're gonna have to come up with a Plan B for him. If you're sure this is velvet, Plan B would be copper - which IME most wrasses tolerate well.

 

[snorvich]

^^This seems like a good plan. 40mg/gal should get the job done. But if the wrasse stops eating, you're gonna have to come up with a Plan B for him. If you're sure this is velvet, Plan B would be copper - which IME most wrasses tolerate well.

This.

 

[blkg35]

Just to clarify, 40mg/g is the lowest dose to kill off velvet?

The wrasses seem to be doing ok with the 20mg/g dose from last night. Will up the dose another 10mg/g tonight and tomorrow. So tomorrow night, the tank should be at 40mg/g. Hope the wrasses make it through this treatment. Thanks for the replies guys!

 

[HumbleFish]

Just to clarify, 40mg/g is the lowest dose to kill off velvet?

60-80mg/gal is more the "accepted range" for treating velvet. However, I wouldn't dose that high with a wrasse. 40 should get the job done. :thumbsup:

 

[blkg35]

60-80mg/gal is more the "accepted range" for treating velvet. However, I wouldn't dose that high with a wrasse. 40 should get the job done. :thumbsup:

Thanks Humblefish!! I've been reading your replies on all the other disease thread and appreciate your contribution.
I'll report back in 20 days when the treatment is done to let you guys know if the wrasses survived the CP.

 

[blkg35]

Just fed the wrasses tonight after 3 days in CP. They are still eating, fingers crossed they continue to.
I have one more question. The CP I received is in tablet form. I crushed it and mixed with saltwater but it doesn't immediately dissolve in the water. My HOB filter has sponges in it to trap detritus. Do you think the sponge will effect the CP level in my tank?
Meaning, will it trap the CP from dissolving in the water and effect my CP levels? I have never dealt with tablets or powder meds before.

 

[HumbleFish]

Just fed the wrasses tonight after 3 days in CP. They are still eating, fingers crossed they continue to.
I have one more question. The CP I received is in tablet form. I crushed it and mixed with saltwater but it doesn't immediately dissolve in the water. My HOB filter has sponges in it to trap detritus. Do you think the sponge will effect the CP level in my tank?
Meaning, will it trap the CP from dissolving in the water and effect my CP levels? I have never dealt with tablets or powder meds before.

I doubt it. It will eventually completely dissolve. However, I wouldn't rinse the sponge out for awhile after you dose CP. Just to be safe.

 

[HumbleFish]

One other thought... perhaps try warming up the water (in a cup) to see if that makes it dissolve quicker?

 

[blkg35]

One other thought... perhaps try warming up the water (in a cup) to see if that makes it dissolve quicker?

I smashed the tablet into fine powder and tried it with warm water. Still didn't dissolve. After 10mins I only notice a little powder left. Not sure if most of it is taken up by the HOB filter.
I'm not going to rinse the sponge, thanks for that advice!

Do you know if room lighting will effect CP or is it only UV lights? I've read threads where some say ambient lighting is ok while others completely darken the tank during treatment.

Today is day 4 of treatment. Fishes are still eating today. No more signs of flashing or rubbing against the floor. Most are active and swimming around the tank. Others are hiding in the PVC but everyone is eating. Will continue to update this thread to let others know if CP is tolerable by wrasses. Following wrasses are being treated: Red Velvet, Flame, Girdle, and pair of Pink Margin.

 

[HumbleFish]

Do you know if room lighting will effect CP or is it only UV lights? I've read threads where some say ambient lighting is ok while others completely darken the tank during treatment.

According to alprazo (who is responsible for reviving interest in CP on here):

Now I have looked into the light thing. As far as I can tell the peak absorption and degradation for chloroquine is at 390 nm. Visible light somewhere near 400-780. Your actinic lights will be 420 nm. So it appears that the majority of the degradation takes place in the UVA to near visible range of light. If you are using a typical household CF bulb, you should be able to minimize the breakdown from light since they have peaks in the 500s and 600s.

When I treat with CP, I've always just utilized indirect sunlight - for example, I'll house the QT in a room with a window (but I make sure no direct sunlight ever hits the tank). I've also used room lighting to feed after the sun goes down, so no worries there.

 

[blkg35]

According to alprazo (who is responsible for reviving interest in CP on here):



When I treat with CP, I've always just utilized indirect sunlight - for example, I'll house the QT in a room with a window (but I make sure no direct sunlight ever hits the tank). I've also used room lighting to feed after the sun goes down, so no worries there.

Thanks again for the reply. I'll continue to update the thread every few days with their status.

 

[blkg35]

Another questions for you folks.
Got my CP from a pharmacy. The description says "Each tablet contains 250mg of chloroquine phosphate USP, equivalent to 150mg chloroquine base".
What does this mean?
Am I figuring my 40mg/g dosage off the 250mg or 150mg number above?

If each tablets contains 150mg of pure CP then I have been dosing under therapeutic levels.

 

[blkg35]

Another questions for you folks.
Got my CP from a pharmacy. The description says "Each tablet contains 250mg of chloroquine phosphate USP, equivalent to 150mg chloroquine base".
What does this mean?
Am I figuring my 40mg/g dosage off the 250mg or 150mg number above?

If each tablets contains 150mg of pure CP then I have been dosing under therapeutic levels.

For anyone interested, I found the answer to my question...

Originally posted by Ironwill723:
"Here is an excerpt from Bob Goemans online book, THE LIVING AQUARIUM MANUAL.....
In most cases, 250 mg tablets have an equivalence of 150 mg chloroquine base, and 500 mg tablets have an equivalence of 300 mg chloroquine base. Although the purity mentioned above is generally accurate, it would be best to verify the chloroquine base contained in the tablets of your choice in order to be able to properly calculate the exact dosage. Keep in mind if you decide to use the tablets, there are some inactive ingredients, which you may have to deal with, e.g., Camauba Wax, Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol, Polysorbate 80, Pregelatinized Starch, Sodium Starch Glycolate, Stearic Acid, and Titanium Dioxide. And as mentioned earlier in this chapter there are occasions where some medicines are not in their pure form (100% pure), i.e., mixed with a substance called a 'carrier,' which should be noted on its label. If so its potency is reduced, and if not sure about the exact amount of medication needed, suggest contacting a more experienced aquarist for the way to resolve this situation".

 

[HumbleFish]

Did not know this. Very good info indeed! Would you mind also posting this on the CP thread? http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214

I wonder if this also applies to the capsules, that you can pull apart and dump the powder in?

 

[blkg35]

Did not know this. Very good info indeed! Would you mind also posting this on the CP thread? http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214

I wonder if this also applies to the capsules, that you can pull apart and dump the powder in?

I'm not sure about the capsules. The tablets I have list most of the carrier ingredients listed by Bob. I recalculated my dosing based on the 150mg cholorquine base and redosed last night to bring me back up to 40mg/g.
I have read the thread you linked numerous times already. Very good information in there and lots of success stories using CP. I'll post in that thread soon.
Fish are still eating and doing well. Even after redosing back up to 40mg/g. Will restart the clock today for 30 days of CP.

 

[blkg35]

Need help!!

Need help!!

Two days ago I noticed one of the wrasse having white stringy poop. Yesterday two wrasses stopped eating. Today, I just noticed that the two that stopped eating have their mouths constantly wide open. The lips appear to be white also. It's like they can't close it or something. They're hanging out at the top of the water, this isn't their normal behavior.

Anyone know what's going on???
I checked ammonia with API test kit and it read 0.

 

[blkg35]

Upon closer inspection, their mouths can open and shut but mostly stays halfway open. The mouth is swollen and white. Is this cotton mouth? Secondary infection from the CP? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[HumbleFish]

The white stringy poop would be a symptom of internal/intestinal parasites (treat by soaking fish food with metronidazole).

The white stuff on the mouth sounds like a bacterial infection (Columnaris), or it could just be Lymphocystis (a virus). Can you post pics?

 

[blkg35]

Woke up and the male pink margin (who had the swollen white lip) died. He was one of my favorites, really bummed.
So do you think it's safe to mix the metro with food and add it into the tank with CP?
I checked the adverse effect of mixing metro with CP in humans, and it shows a moderate adverse effect. I wonder if this is the same for fishes?

Just checked my water parameter with API test kit:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 10
Looks like my tank is going through the cycle. Been doing daily water changes to help with this.