what meds for QT?

[salt4life8]

Just about to move my 29 to a 55g and for new fish going into the 55g I am going to set up a QT and stick every new fish in there before it goes into the display. How long should I quarantine a fish for ( I was thinking 2 weeks) and I need help on choosing some medications to get to treat new incoming fish. No idea where to start on medications, there are so many and I know some don't work well and some are not as safe as they say they are.

 

[RegalAngel]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774812

 

[salt4life8]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774812

thanks~

 

[RBU1]

That info is OK but not what most do. I have learned that the QT process should not be rushed. You should make sure your QT is well cycled and will not have a spike in amonnia. Here is what i suggest you do after making sure your QT is well cycled of course...

When you add a new fish to QT observe and feed heavy for the first week or two based on your observation of eating. Then start to treat with cupramine raising the level real slow split the dosage amount in 4. The instructions are 16 drops per 10.5 gallons wait 48 hours then repeat. I would add 8 drops wait 48 hours making sure fish are acting and eating like normal then add another 8 drops and so on.....After you complete the dosage your cupramine level should be .5 You have to leave it at that level for 4 weeks. Now what I do is after the 4 weeks I remove all the copper do a really large water change observe for a week then do a prazipro treatment for a week. Then in the main tank......

 

[salt4life8]

thanks for the info! aka, treat for a long time? lol
And I will probably have the QT tank set up and running (with nothing in it) for probably a couple months.
Also, I have heard that cupramine is harmful to certain fish?

 

[RBU1]

thanks for the info! aka, treat for a long time? lol
And I will probably have the QT tank set up and running (with nothing in it) for probably a couple months.
Also, I have heard that cupramine is harmful to certain fish?

Copper is considered risky for scaleless fish. Like puffers, rays....

It is however the safest copper out there. If you plan on scaleless fish hypo may be a better choice but I think Cuprmaine will still work...

 

[wooden_reefer]

Just about to move my 29 to a 55g and for new fish going into the 55g I am going to set up a QT and stick every new fish in there before it goes into the display. How long should I quarantine a fish for ( I was thinking 2 weeks) and I need help on choosing some medications to get to treat new incoming fish. No idea where to start on medications, there are so many and I know some don't work well and some are not as safe as they say they are.

Yes cycle for the QT very well.

Cycling FOR the QT can be cycling the QT (as many do usually) or cycling a medium intended for QT. Cycling a medium separately, in a separate container, is often a good alternative to cycling a QT; this way, you can use little water to cycle and then dump all the dirty cycling water.

Copper or hypo to treat ich does not harm nitrification bacteria significantly.

If you do not have concurrent bacterial infection, you would have no problem with ammonia in QT for the long QT period, at least eight weeks of active continuous treatment, to eradicate ich.

Bacteria infection is bad per se; in addition, drugs required to treat bacterial infection is detrimental to nitrification bacteria to varying degrees. I always use UV in QT to reduce the incidents in bacteria infection whenever possible, when I am not using a druig that UV degrades, such an antibiotics. Copper, at least straight copper, is not degraded by UV.

Concurrent bacteria infection in QT when eradicating ich makes ammonia problem more complex, but often one may still manage to have nitrification with an antibiotic that only mildy affects nitrification.

 

[Chris27]

QT and a first aid kit is a little confusing at first, but like most things, if you break it down into simple concepts, it's not that bad.

Figure your major ailments, Cryptocaryon irritans (SW Ich), Brooklynella, black spot, Velvet and bacterial/fungal infections, and get a few products to treat of them.

My kit consists of:

1. Copper, both ionic and cupramine.
2. Refractometer (Hypo treatments)
3. Seachem Prime (detoxifies ammonia)
4. Prazipro - black spot, other worms.
5. Melafix / Pimafix (natural fungal and bacterial treatment)

While I don't have some others I need, the above list is reasonably complete and has worked for my needs. In the event I have something else, I have a number of LFS's that I can run to any day of the week.

 

[wooden_reefer]

As far as drugs to be used in QT are concerned, I think there are four issues.

1. the drug's effectiveness in killing the pathogen

2. drug's impact on nitrification bacteria, nitrosonous and nitrobacter separately.

3. UV's (or Ozone's) impact on the drugs, copper (straight only?) is one that is not much affected by UV, almost all other drugs are degraded by UV, I think.

4. stablity in the tank water, half-life, need to renew, ease of removal from tank water with or without chemical filtration.

 

[birddog486]

That info is OK but not what most do. I have learned that the QT process should not be rushed. You should make sure your QT is well cycled and will not have a spike in amonnia. Here is what i suggest you do after making sure your QT is well cycled of course...

When you add a new fish to QT observe and feed heavy for the first week or two based on your observation of eating. Then start to treat with cupramine raising the level real slow split the dosage amount in 4. The instructions are 16 drops per 10.5 gallons wait 48 hours then repeat. I would add 8 drops wait 48 hours making sure fish are acting and eating like normal then add another 8 drops and so on.....After you complete the dosage your cupramine level should be .5 You have to leave it at that level for 4 weeks. Now what I do is after the 4 weeks I remove all the copper do a really large water change observe for a week then do a prazipro treatment for a week. Then in the main tank......

This is some good advice so +1 to this.

I QT all fish and treat every one of them as if their infected with parasites. I've always used cupramine and have had good luck dosing Prazi at the same time. That way During my 3 weeks of Copper treatment(labeling doseage says 14 days) I can get two full 7 day courses of Prazi into the tank. One treatment of Prazi usually wont be enough if the fish has egg laying flukes, unless the water temps are in the high 80's speeding up their life cycle.

 

[RegalAngel]

Note: If you use Cupramine you will NOT be able to use an ammonia reducer such as Amquel or Prime as they will release the Cu from its bound state. So, the QT must be well cycled as mentioned by Wooden.

 

[Chris27]

Note: If you use Cupramine you will NOT be able to use an ammonia reducer such as Amquel or Prime as they will release the Cu from its bound state. So, the QT must be well cycled as mentioned by Wooden.

That can be true, however in the interim, if you need to detoxify ammonia quickly, you can always add more copper later after a water change.

This situation can be avoided using well cycled medium in a QT....

I keep a cycled QT running and it has come in handy on more then one occasion, I like to encourage others to do the same. If you don't like the look of an empty tank in a room, move it to a garage or shed, but it's really nice to have that option when you need it!

 

[9toes]

How does everyone keep their QT tank cycled when not in use?

 

[RegalAngel]

How does everyone keep their QT tank cycled when not in use?

I cycled mine fishless with NH4OH (store bought ammonia at Ace Hardware). A few drops every few days and it stays cycled.

 

[birddog486]

^+1

 

[wooden_reefer]

I cycled mine fishless with NH4OH (store bought ammonia at Ace Hardware). A few drops every few days and it stays cycled.

You can also pulse higher ammonia periodically, say biweekly. If you so happen to need the QT when there can be lingering ammonia, you will have to change all the water. If you use a power filter, you can use a small container and keep running the filter in it; for a canister filter, it can be a 5-gal bucket 2/3 filled. Just 3 gals of water, which you can dump without lamenting.

Observe that nitrification bacteria live in moist soil. So you can also keep your medium moist, partly submerged, and feed periodically. Place medium in a container that is loosly covered to allow air but reduce evaporation. Starting salinity is better mid-range, say 1.015, and allow to flucuate by adding freshwater to maintain mid-range salinity. Feed biweekly with an ammonia source. Rinse with clean water of correct parameters if you need to use the medium for QT. Fully subnmerged is not as good for gaseous exchange.

Nitrification bacteria get the carbon for their cell structure from CO2, Nitrogen is from ammonia I suppose. But there could be some substances needed for them other than C and N. May be P in mnute amount is needed. I don't know, so I prefer to add at least a tiny amount of animal protein instead of all inorganic ammonia. Can't be wrong but can be unnecessary, but I do so anyway.

 

[salt4life8]

thanks for all your advice!