What Seahorse is my tank suited for?

[cocoaandme]

Hi thanks everybody. I have a 70 gallon tank that is well established. Currently it has a target spot dragonet in there that has done fine without feeding (due to the healthy pod population) and some corals and macroalgae. The tank is 2 feet tall 32 inches long and 18 inches wide. I was wondering what seahorse would be best for this tank as I would like to add a pair. Thank you again!

 

[suzimcmullen]

What temperature do you keep your tank at? Most seahorses that are larger need the temps to be between 72 and 74 degrees.

I don't know a lot about seahorses. I've been studying them for a few months. It's really HARD to find a good place to buy seahorses. If you buy from the big vendors you will likely get wild-caught seahorses that will come in with internal and external parasites. You should do a lot of research to be sure you are ready. If you think keeping the dragonet is touchy because some people don't have enough pods, seahorses are WAY worse. They often come very finicky and they can't live on only pods for long. The vendors will say they are trained to frozen. But they often won't be. So you'll want to keep a separate tank to keep live mysis in there and then keep another tank of brine shrimp to feed the live mysis. The mysis eat each other. So feeding them brine a few times per day keep them from eating each other to extinstion too fast.

These horses are so cool! So I'm definitely not wanting to sound discouraging. You just need to be mentally prepared for the challenges that will come.

I'm told that if you find a private breeder and get horses that were conceived and born in a tank, not just in captivity, then you will have a much healthier horse that will take a better variety of foods. But many people throw up pens in the ocean and then say they were raised in captivity when they were not.

As for types... I LOVE reidi because of the striking colors they can get. They range between black and bright red and will change color according to mood, time of month, mating etc. BUT, reidi have up to 400 babies at once! And most of them don't live and wouldn't live in your display tank. So you really want 2 females unless you are willing to enter the world of breeding which sounds like a big mess from what I'm studying. AND, they can breed every single freaking month! If that happens you have to start with rotifiers, set up a rotifier culture, have another grow out tank and be willing to face a lot of dead babies. Then they can eat brine in a few weeks, what survives that is and eventually they can go back to grow up with the parents or you set up grow up tanks. Reidi are the hardest to raise from babies so I've read.

Check out seahorsesource.com. The man and woman are wonderful and will take the time to talk with you through email or on phone. They breed themselves and though they don't have all types, they have a variety and you can trust them. I wish I had met them first.

Suzi

 

[cocoaandme]

Do you have any seahorses? I was thinking about dwarf seahorses. I have a chiller so I can cool the tank water down. Right now though I am keeping it at 80. Thanks for the info.

 

[suzimcmullen]

Yes I have a whole herd of dwarf seahorses. But you would not be able to put them in your large tank. They are so tiny. First of all you wouldn't be able to see them. They'd get sucked up in your filtration for sure.

I have 19 dwarf seahorses in a 1 gallon aquarium. That's temporary while I'm treating the 10 gallon. But just to put it in perspective, I can keep my whole herd in a 10 gallon no problem even if they keep having babies.

The little ones are really sweet to watch. I also have a 4-5 inch h. comes that is bright yellow and brown striped. She's more yellow than brown. But that also changes with mood.

The dwarf seahorses can go up to 85 degrees. My girl (jewels) is very fine at 75 and sometimes it gets up to 77. I keep the lid up on my bio-cube off and on through the day with the ceiling fan in the room going. I also keep a little container of tank water in the fridge and exchange it out a few times per day.

Suzi

 

[JennyL]

Hi Cocoaandme,
A little more information about your setup would help.
If you have any stinging corals in this tank, you will not be able to safely keep seahorses with them.

Temp is a big issue. You will need to bring it down. Differant species have differant temp requirements. Temperate species will need a chiller.

Your 70G would be a nice size tank for H erectus. They are one of the large species and are a beautiful horse. You could keep 3 pair quite comfortably.

Re: H zosterae(dwarf):
You would need a smaller tank, 5G minimum. Water quality is extremely important with all species and anything smaller is much more difficult to maintain plus the fact that all species, no matter the size, need swimming space.

The ideal water perams for H zosterae are:
Temperature- 71-73F
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate<10 ppm
PH-8.2-8.3
SG(specific gravity) 1.019

As posted above 85 is NOT ok for these horses. That is a death sentence for any species.
Two of the most common mistakes with keeping this species is poor nutrition and high temps ending in their suffering and early demise.

There are so many myths concerning this species.
1. is they will only eat live bbs. This is not true. They thrive on a varied diet. Copepods are one of the best foods for them and they love them. But a variety of small crustaceans is necessary for good health and longevity.

2. Another myth is that this species never move or hunt. When given the space and correct water perams and diet, they are very active. But incorrect water perams and poor diet will result in lethargic and unhealthy horses.
It is important to also space out feeding as you would with any other species.

One very important fact to keep in mind is stability of their tank. Large swings in your perameters are detrimental to the horses.
Regular testing will allow you to stay on top of their tank conditions and if corrections need to be made, you will be made aware of them before things get out of hand and prevent the horses from suffering.

HTH

 

[suzimcmullen]

I agree. My dwarf fry really hunt down and chase their food. They like the copepods when I add them. I am feeding them mostly brine though. I change up what I feed the brine each day so I can add vitamins, vegetables etc. I'm still experimenting with that. But it must be pretty good because my fry are growing rapidly.

The grown ups are not doing as well. They are more lethargic in general. I suspect they didn't have the best diet before I got them.

I said earlier I am treating my 10 gallon tank. I forgot to say that hydroids are very detrimental to dwarfs. Hydroids are found in most reefs in small numbers. But baby brine is what hydroids like to eat and that causes them to grow out of control.

Suzi

 

[cocoaandme]

Thanks Jenny. The only corals in my tank are xenia, toadstool leather, mushrooms an duncans. Do you think the duncans whould be a problem for the seahorses? I know they are sitnging but they don;t seem to be as bad as other lps stingers. I also have some red grape algae, red feather algae and string of pearls. The tank is about 1 year old as is but all the live rock an live sand is from previous tanks so they are about 3-4 years old.

Water parameters are very stable with zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (on account of the xenia and algae) and filtration is just a rena xp3 for mechanical filtration. For the intake on the xp3 I used a spray bar so that things like seahorses can't get sucked in or stuck. I actually designed the tank to be a seahorse tank and I let it mature and when I saw a very large population of copepods and amphipods I decided to test how viable it was by adding a mandarin goby, which worked out well because he was abe to survive on just the pod population.

I also arranged my rock work to alow for lots of crevices in the rock so that the pods could breed without predation. I was thinking about either getting reidi or a large herd of dwarf seahorses. I was wndering why it was not advised to ad dwarf seahorses to a large tank? I don't mind if I don't see them that much, but I just thought that the extra space would be better for them.

Thanks!

 

[suzimcmullen]

The thing is, most people don't really understand how small they are until you see them in person. They are so tiny that we keep a magnifying glass next to the tank to look at them!

Also, seahorses will grab onto everything. So even something that has a little sting would kill them. Also, I have some small anemones that I moved to another tank. The mouth of those anemones would definitely swallow even the adult dwarf horses not to mention the little fry. I just don't think you would be happy putting them into such a large tank.

Also, they need to have quite a lot of food available because they don't hunt down their food like other critters do. They like to latch onto something and get it as it swims by. So having them in a smaller tank allows you to give them more baby brine or whatever else you are giving them.

Since your mandarin has been eating only copepods for awhile, I'm not certain your pod population would withstand the way the dwarves breed! They are like rabbits having babies constantly. They mature sexually by the end of 3 months too. So soon your babies would be having babies.

Also, if any of them died you would never find them. You could have a disease go through and wipe out several at once and then your ammonia would rise since you would not likely find the bodies in such a big tank.

I thought I was going to put mine in my 14 gallon bio-cube. But when I saw how small they were I moved them to a 5 gallon. Then just before he gave birth I thought better of it and put them in a 10 gallon. I just don't think I'd go bigger than that for the little ones.

Suzi

 

[cocoaandme]

Well I would feed them baby brine as well as other things. Are your horses wild or bred? Where did you get them from? Just how small are they?

 

[suzimcmullen]

Well they are about 3/4th of an inch long with their tails curled up. The babies are so small that they are only about 1/8th-1/4th of an inch long. They are skinny, tiny and it's just hard to explain. I know I was shocked.

Mine are wild-caught and I got them from a couple of places. The first place is closed down for the summer. The 2nd place only sent me one healthy horse out of 4.

Suzi

 

[cocoaandme]

How many do you have now?

 

[suzimcmullen]

I have 16 babies born of the 17. They are 2 weeks old today. I have 3 adults and just realized tonight that my male looks pregnant again. He's about the same size he was when I got him. He had another 8 days or so before he gave birth the last time he was about this size. I have to get them back into the larger tank. I have a feeling I'm going to have a very large heard!

Sadly, my RO/DI unit gave out on me for the 2nd time in 2 months and I realized they were exposed to high ammonia today. I carefully brought it down to good perameters again like acclimating them all over. I'm picking up some methblue tomorrow to help with any ammonia burn symptoms they may have. They seem ok tonight and are eating well.

What a pain! I had to rush out and buy 10 gallons of distilled water tonight. Tomorrow I'll go to the LFS and buy 15 gallons of pre-mixed saltwater.

Suzi

 

[ReidiLoverLinds]

the reason why you wouldn't want to put dwarves in a tank that size is because you need to maintain a good density of whatever you are feeding. it would be rather impossible to do that in your setup.

 

[suzimcmullen]

I have wondered about those brine shrimp hatcheries that hang inside the tank. They are setup to have the shrimp swim out of a small exit when they are ready and they are drawn to the light. I ran into someone that said it works well. But it was used for fish.

I wonder if the horses would learn that is where the food is and would just go there to eat?

Suzi

 

[cocoaandme]

Yeah I think those work well for seahorses, but of course brine shrimp doesn't have much nutritional value.

 

[suzimcmullen]

That may be so, which I don't agree with, but seahorses eat copepods. So if the system is well established they would be fine in both.

There have been some studies that have showed that brine has it's place right a long side of everything else. In the first day they are high in the good fats that fry need. When they age they become a low fat, high quality protien. But they should be enriched before being fed after the first day. So that wouldn't work well in a big tank with that in tank hatchery.

The type of copepods that should be raised for dwarf horses is the type that stays swimming in the water colum. But even if they were kept in another tank and cultured, any other fast moving fish would get to them before the seahorses could. I can't remember the name of that type. But I have a wonderful culture of them now. I just haven't figured out the best way to keep the water quality up and harvest them for my tanks without losing copepods when I change the water.

Suzi

 

[ann83]

Suzi, what is/are the studies that talk about the nutritional value of bbs and that they are high quality protein? Just trying to do my research.

As for the hatch 'n' feed in-tank bbs hatchers, they will foul the water in your dwarf tank (and possibly introduce dangers). You wouldn't add hatcher water to your dwarf display, thats why you strain and rinse bbs, so it makes sense that you wouldn't want to connect that nasty water directly to your display.