why buy live rock??

Von_Rahvin

New member
if you are going to "cure" it by killing almost everything off of the rock?

i understand that by just dumping live rock in the tank you stand the chance of introducing things you may or may not want into the tank, but wouldn't be cheaper just to buy base rock and seed it?

If i'm going to spend upwards of 7 bucks a pound for live rock, i want all the interesting wild critters that comes with it.

i just read a thread about a guy dumping some poundage of live rock into a 10% vinegar solution to cure it. why bother??
 
Curing is not the same thing as cooking. Effectively sterilizing the rock is called cooking. Cooking your rock is a last ditch effort to clean your rock, usually of detritus, phosphates, algae, and most if not all life.

Curing is the process of leaving your tank running with just the liverock and a powerhead and maybe low level lighting, for the purpose of waiting off the cycle that your tank goes through.

A common misconception that I've noticed from a few people recently is the notion of "uncured" rock being dead rock.

Uncured just means fresh from the ocean, put into a box in a bag, and then that box and bag being shipped to you or to the LFS. So it's raw ocean rock, with lots of life, some of which survived and seed the rock, some of which died, causing your tank's first cycle. That's why you cycle uncured rock.

Cured rock means that it's sat in an LFS or someone else's tank for that initial die-off period, with the intent that you pay a premium for the rock that will not have to cycle again or have much die off (negelgable dieoff between leaving the LFS and reaching your tank)

Hope that makes sense.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11761198#post11761198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by loyalrogue
Excellent and concise answer, ReefWreak.

i 2nd that, also lfs may tell you that it is cured, maybe it is and maybe it's not. You really don't know. People in the business can smell it and tell you more or less but, i can't tell the different.
 
thanks. for the quick anwser.

is there any reason to go out and buy fresh live rock and then cook it? just seems like a huge waste to me. . . .
 
Dude you can smell uncured rock. Believe me. I've seen it come from Fiji and wherever else and picked up at the airport and opened. It smells like rotting ocean life.... If you don't know the smell, then you've never smelled uncured liverock. You'll remember. It kinda smelled like the swamp by my old house in Miami/gables.
 
You cook the rock by leaving it in a dark vat, allowing no light in, preferably with a skimmer, heater, and some powerheads just blowing the rock around. You leave it like this for months (6 months or more?), while doing water changes every week to 2 weeks, and something like 50-75% water changes on the vats.

When you're done, there's next to nothing left on the rocks, though some of the life is sure to survive. Most of the phosphates should have leached out of the rock after that time. All algae will be gone, sponges might be present, but waterchanges and agressive skimming should techinically choke them out as well, but its very hard to reduce the nutrients to nothing with the rocks sloughing off so much crap.

The only thing it will not get rid of is aiptasia, as they're not photosynthetic, and can eat that sloughed material as well as any other particulate matter floating around. :(
 
Also, keep in mind that even if it doesn't smell like rotten eggs, you may still have some die-off in your tank depending on the conditions, water quality, lighting, etc. And don't get too attached to the cute little whatever-it-is growing on the side because your cleanup crew and/or your fish will probably make short work of that. I've been lucky in that I've picked out a few rocks at the LFS that had living corals on them, and they've survived. Also crabs, brittle stars, pods, snails...
 
Cooking rock and curing rock is just a terminology, The issue with live rock is that it is shipped from overseas almost dry or barely moist, sometimes it seats for weeks in the island beaches until it is shipped, the idea is to allow all dying matter to disintegrate and allow the byproducts to be consumed by the bacteria that this natural process produces.
Curing and cooking do not kill the bacteria that lives deep inside the rock and on the rock surface, this bacteria is the heart of your biological filtrtation.
There are several different types of bacteria that populate the live rock, most of these bacteria range from beneficial to imperative, in nature it takes time to get this rock populated with all these bacteria.
It is unclear how effective it is as a biological filtration when you try to seed dry rock in your aquarium.
I have witness several tank failures due to people not understanding the reason behind live rock and the roll it plays in the success of your tank.
 
How long does one need to cook the Live rock.
see
i came across some Live rock that has been sitting out of water for some months. I would like to cook it to help set up in the 92 when I upgrade in the coming 2 months.
 
Originally posted by SeanT
Dave,
Sure thing.
But before I do I just want to say that Bomber instructed me how to do it several months ago and it works great. So it is his process that I am trying to make popular and cause fellow hobbyists a lot less heartache in the long term.
The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have tha bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."

Here are the steps, if you have any questions I will try my best to answer them. What I don't know I am sure Bomber can/will instruct.

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turnsq brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish.
9. Cover the tub. Remember, we want total darkness.
10. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
11. Wait.
12. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again unti the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detrius is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.

How it works:


Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been extablished. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.




I hope this helps you out.
It really is a "miracle" and a low cost one at that.
The only monies spent are for salt and electricity for the powerheads which are nominal. Especially to rid yourself of Bryopsis.
Time and effort is all it akes. And really not that much effort.
I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on andy rocks in the tubs now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, receed etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Everytime I do a waterchange they are there and plentiful.

If you have any questions please ask.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11761554#post11761554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefWreak
Dude you can smell uncured rock. Believe me. I've seen it come from Fiji and wherever else and picked up at the airport and opened. It smells like rotting ocean life.... If you don't know the smell, then you've never smelled uncured liverock. You'll remember. It kinda smelled like the swamp by my old house in Miami/gables.

Yes, but correct me if i am wrong that is when you open the box, but now the LFS owner places it in a tank with power heads and a skimmer exactly 2 days later I pass by the store ask the owner is this rock cured he says yes he lets me smell it. It smells just like the rock in my tank not rotten. The rock was from Walt Smith International i later found their website and they say they only ship uncured rock. Like i said unless your in the business or experienced uncured rock placed in a setup with powerheads and skimmer i can't tell the different a couple of days later, and that is what we see in lfs.
 
Again, uncured means that it's raw from the ocean, hardly treated. That rock would be considered uncured by most, cured by LFS who gets to charge $2+ more per pound since it's now "cured."

Uncured vs. Cured is technically a qualitative measurement with no specific defined values. It is what you say it is, much like anything else in this hobby.

IMO, uncured would have to sit at least a week, probably two in an LFS curing tub or system before I would consider it cured. I would guess that a week or so of shedding would get most of the initial detritus and "dead stuff" off, and I'm assuming that they put a good ammount of flow and turbulence through the liverock tanks, so that helps quite a bit with that initial nutrient fluctuation. The whole idea behind buying cured rock is to avoid that nutrient "spike" fluctuation.

Short of that and pests that might be in the rocks, I wouldn't consider starting a fresh tank without uncured liverock.

I'm hoping I'll never have to start a fresh tank again. Too expensive :)
 
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