Work around for braced tanks?

[rickztahone]

Hello everyone. I am new to the site and wanted to ask a question that I can not quite search for as I do not know the key words to use.

Here is my situation. I have a 75g acrylic build that I am working on. I had a 40g acrylic tank lying around and decided to convert it to a sump.

I have always used canister filters and HOBs for filtration but finally decided to take the plunge.

After much reading here I have decided to go with a Coast to Coast setup with a Bean Animal overflow. However, I am not visualizing how I can possibly do the coast to coast because of the bracing on the top of my 75g acrylic tank. Would welding the acrylic only from the outside (from inside the tank) suffice? How do you create the weir on the coast to coast?

I have a few more questions, but that is my main one. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Gorgok]

If the wall was nice and thick i would probably just slot the entire back wall, with maybe 3 small points of contact remaining to the top with a router (depending on bracing). Build an external box for the plumbing. The back wall would become the weir. Nothing in the tank.

Building a box inside the tank probably would work even with only access to apply solvent from one side, depending on material thickness and technique. Problem is the plumbing install if you have a wide brace... Either the box has to be so wide to make it past that, so low, or a combination.

Pictures would help though. Not even sure if the tank is assembled or not...

 

[1234]

what I have done for customers, is build an external box and for the water just route a oval slot at the upper back of the tank and use gutter gard to keep all the animals in. Of course the box material will have to be double thick, ie 3/8" - 1/2" to give support to the back wall

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

i don't know why you need to put plumbing in the internal box…just drill the holes and allow it to poor into the external overflow box with all the plumbing done in there…

as for assembly of the internal box i cannot help as i have never worked with acrylic, but if you can/ if it is acceptable to weld it from only the bottom side then i don't an issue...

 

[rickztahone]

If the wall was nice and thick i would probably just slot the entire back wall, with maybe 3 small points of contact remaining to the top with a router (depending on bracing). Build an external box for the plumbing. The back wall would become the weir. Nothing in the tank.

Building a box inside the tank probably would work even with only access to apply solvent from one side, depending on material thickness and technique. Problem is the plumbing install if you have a wide brace... Either the box has to be so wide to make it past that, so low, or a combination.

Pictures would help though. Not even sure if the tank is assembled or not...

Well there wouldn't be any plumbing in the internal box because it is there to skim the surface and allow more surface area for the water to get skimmed coast to coast. There wouldn't be anything in that box, and there would only be 3 drilled holes along the back wall of the tank.

I hadn't thought about just drilling the back of the tank, but I don't know how comfortable I'd feel slotting the back of it on my own. Thank you for the advice though.

what I have done for customers, is build an external box and for the water just route a oval slot at the upper back of the tank and use gutter gard to keep all the animals in. Of course the box material will have to be double thick, ie 3/8" - 1/2" to give support to the back wall

Have you done it on a tank that has Euro type bracing? I'm not sure if that is what you call the top portion of acrylic tanks, but I'm talking about the top pane that have the two main slots to access the tank. The reason I ask is because I thought about doing something like this, but the tanks i have seen this done on are the ones that do not have any type of top brace. Basically all rimless. I would see how you could do that with a tank like that. Do you happen to have pics? Thank you.

i don't know why you need to put plumbing in the internal box"¦just drill the holes and allow it to poor into the external overflow box with all the plumbing done in there"¦

as for assembly of the internal box i cannot help as i have never worked with acrylic, but if you can/ if it is acceptable to weld it from only the bottom side then i don't an issue...

No plumbing in internal box. I was planning on doing it just like you described. That is what I got from all the reading I did. I'm sorry if it came across that way in OP. It would technically be held in place by welds at the bottom of the internal box and the side along the side walls since it is coast to coast. Basically and L shape right at the top back part of the tank. I could add weir slots in the acrylic as well and then weld in place.

Thank you all for the help. I'll get a shot of the tank, but it is a typical acrylic top tank with the top pane with access points.

 

[Gorgok]

With an internal weir and external box i don't see any issue at all. Just bond the internal weir as best you can from inside the tank/outside the weir. I might even make the L shape first (as its own structure), then bond it to the tank in one shot... if you can maneuver a piece that big into place. Would have to do some dry runs with cardboard i think to see if you can.

You can always make the weir shorter than a full length one, with end caps, which will make installing it much easier. Considering it will probably stick out 1-2" out of the back wall anyway, having it be 2" or so shorter than full length will still mean the weir is as long (or even longer) than a full coast to coast.

Hole size and count will also matter for noise of an external box in operation. I have an internal weir, external box on my 75 glass tank. I have 5 60mm holes in my wall to pass the water, and they are all right around half full at something over 1000 gph.

 

[rickztahone]

With an internal weir and external box i don't see any issue at all. Just bond the internal weir as best you can from inside the tank/outside the weir. I might even make the L shape first (as its own structure), then bond it to the tank in one shot... if you can maneuver a piece that big into place. Would have to do some dry runs with cardboard i think to see if you can.

You can always make the weir shorter than a full length one, with end caps, which will make installing it much easier. Considering it will probably stick out 1-2" out of the back wall anyway, having it be 2" or so shorter than full length will still mean the weir is as long (or even longer) than a full coast to coast.

Hole size and count will also matter for noise of an external box in operation. I have an internal weir, external box on my 75 glass tank. I have 5 60mm holes in my wall to pass the water, and they are all right around half full at something over 1000 gph.

Thank you for that last part, very detailed information like that is difficult to come by. If you have any more I would greatly appreciate it. Do you mean to say that you have 5 holes total that dump in to the overflow eventually? Or that you have 5 total holes, including return?

As far as the internal box, I did plan on making the L first and then welding in to place from the outside. I just wasn't sure if only welding from one side was enough to support the whole thing. Keep in mind, it is going to also be made out of acrylic, so it wouldn't be a heavy as cut glass.

Lastly, does anyone know of safe paint to paint the internal box? Or the background of the tank (the inside) because the inside is painted blue, and I'd like black. I've used Krylon paint in the past for pvc and such, but never a whole wall of a tank. I just want to make sure it would hold up after years of use. Thanks again all. Very helpful community so far.

 

[woodnaquanut]

You might want to take a look at the 'ghost overflow'. It uses internal and external boxes held on with the bulkheads.

 

[rickztahone]

You might want to take a look at the 'ghost overflow'. It uses internal and external boxes held on with the bulkheads.

Thank you for the info. I did actually check out that specific one, but when I went on their site it didn't show any for sale, only a pre-order page which was off-putting to me. Nice design though.

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

you will not be able to paint anything "in" the tank…your best bet is to use tinted acrylic…


and as for gorgok tank believe he has 5 2" holes into the overflow box and 3 there out of it to the sump…the more and bigger the holes will prevent he water from shooting into your external box and prevent as much "waterfall" as possible.

 

[Gorgok]

Thank you for that last part, very detailed information like that is difficult to come by. If you have any more I would greatly appreciate it. Do you mean to say that you have 5 holes total that dump in to the overflow eventually? Or that you have 5 total holes, including return?

That is 5 pass through holes, 3 more 60mm holes for 1-1/2" bulkheads in the external box.

 

[rickztahone]

That is 5 pass through holes, 3 more 60mm holes for 1-1/2" bulkheads in the external box.

Thank you very much for that information.

 

[rickztahone]

I will be doing more research as I go along. I really wanted to change the inside color of my tank from blue to black. I see no other way to do it but to paint it, but many have told me not to. Additionally, I was thinking I can buy opaque black acrylic and silicone it in to place, but seeing as the openings at the top aren't that large, there is no way I can pull that off unless I do it in pieces. Any suggestions?

 

[rickztahone]

Rather than start a new thread to ask this, I thought i'd ask here. Can someone tell me, when doing a sump setup, how do you know which return size to use? I plan on going with a 1" bulkhead for the bean animal setup and bushing it to 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 per the suggestion of another member here, but, I have also read that you do not want restrict flow (can't remember if on return or intake). So, does this mean that I need to use a 1" bulkhead on my return method? I'm talking specifically about the return nozzle here, or can the nozzle be smaller and no need to worry about the restriction?

Additionally, I am looking at pumps in the 750gph range at 5', but since I've never used one, I am not sure which brands may be good and which are not. Do sump users have a pump that gets recommended more than others?

I am looking at two from Jehmco, the Quiet One 4000, or SEN 900 Pump

Just as a reminder, this is a 75g build and 40g sump freshwater tank.

any help is greatly appreciated as always.

 

[rickztahone]

I followed the advice given and I cut up some cardboard to see how it would work out in a real world application. Due to the bracing of the tank, the holes prevent me from putting in the L shaped internal C2C as one whole piece. However, it obviously would fit as a single long piece.

Does anyone have advice on whether I should try to actually make the L shape inside the tank, or should I simply make the C2C shorter, roughly about 6 inches to make the whole thing slide in as an L?

Secondly, I ran in to a seller that sells overflow setups that mount up via bulkheads. Someone had mentioned that earlier but I didn't really know what that meant at the time. Now that I know, I'm thinking of having the seller sell me only the external box so that I do not have to fab up the piece myself. I have never worked with acrylic before and I'd rather not leave it to chance that my weld job may not be that great.

However, I had initially decided to go with 3x 1" bulkheads on the back of the tank to dump in to the overflow box, but the seller is selling a setup where he only has 2 holes, but they are both 2". Is this comparable?