would this be an okay pair?

[hotelbravo]

My lfs got a batch of captive raised picasso clowns in that are under and inch long. Pretty small looking. I was wanting to make a pair out of two of them.. would a pair from the same gene pool work or will that be bad for the fry. Worried about incest babies

 

[addictedreefer]

My lfs got a batch of captive raised picasso clowns in that are under and inch long. Pretty small looking. I was wanting to make a pair out of two of them.. would a pair from the same gene pool work or will that be bad for the fry. Worried about incest babies

Definitely avoid if you intend to raise fry. Incest is never a good thing. Designer clowns are inbred enough as it is.

 

[hotelbravo]

okay well there are a few from a different batch and its unknown if they have the same parents. the few from the other batch are a little bigger. should i grab one from each batch??

 

[REEFBUILDER1]

They are probably from the same parents just different batches if i were you i would buy one picasso and one C Quest onyx they are probably far from related

 

[hotelbravo]

They are probably from the same parents just different batches if i were you i would buy one picasso and one C Quest onyx they are probably far from related

i have the option of getting a black ice also.. but he is twice as big i fear of aggression. the little guy wont stand a chance
i am limited on choices. my lfs is the best on prices i have ever seen but their selection is small they dont seem to keep fish. when they get a shipment in it is all sold within the first few days. i dont want to miss out of the black ice or the small picasso's
but can the two mix?? as far as i know one is a percula and the other is an ocellaris. id rather have percula

and if all choices fail i will get a plain looking percula to match the picasso

 

[phender]

I wouldn't worry about inbreeding. Studies show that it takes about 8 generations before you start to get inbreeding depression.
Most of the problems with designer clowns that people attribute to inbreeding are actually caused by poor water conditions and nutrition.

Getting two clowns that vary in size actually decreases the chance for aggression. The smaller clown normally quickly submits to the larger one and all is good after that.

 

[hotelbravo]

I wouldn't worry about inbreeding. Studies show that it takes about 8 generations before you start to get inbreeding depression.
Most of the problems with designer clowns that people attribute to inbreeding are actually caused by poor water conditions and nutrition.

Getting two clowns that vary in size actually decreases the chance for aggression. The smaller clown normally quickly submits to the larger one and all is good after that.

so then which option do you think i should do

 

[REEFBUILDER1]

I wouldn't worry about inbreeding. Studies show that it takes about 8 generations before you start to get inbreeding depression.
Most of the problems with designer clowns that people attribute to inbreeding are actually caused by poor water conditions and nutrition.

Getting two clowns that vary in size actually decreases the chance for aggression. The smaller clown normally quickly submits to the larger one and all is good after that.

+1 Choose the BIGGEST clown fish and the other clownfish try to make it as SMALL as possible that way the small clown will realize he has no chance and give up without a fight and you will have a pair in no time:dance: if you choose two the same size they will fight some breeds like maroons to death

 

[hotelbravo]

+1 Choose the BIGGEST clown fish and the other clownfish try to make it as SMALL as possible that way the small clown will realize he has no chance and give up without a fight and you will have a pair in no time:dance: if you choose two the same size they will fight some breeds like maroons to death

i just gave my maroon away. what do you think about the big one being ocellaris and the small being percula. will it matter??

 

[addictedreefer]

I wouldn't worry about inbreeding. Studies show that it takes about 8 generations before you start to get inbreeding depression.
Most of the problems with designer clowns that people attribute to inbreeding are actually caused by poor water conditions and nutrition.

Getting two clowns that vary in size actually decreases the chance for aggression. The smaller clown normally quickly submits to the larger one and all is good after that.

Disagree. Given all the available science it is very naive to say that inbreeding will cause no adverse effects for 8 generations. It is illegal for humans in all 50 states for a reason. Sadly it is this attitude that adds to the captive bred deformity issue. Also, given that we know that designer clowns are often inbred as it is, why would you add another layer to the problem? Also, even assuming that it takes 8 generations, we have a responsibility to break the chain when we can.

 

[hotelbravo]

okay so what option should i do then. i want two clowns TODAY. im getting a great deal on TWO and it will only be for today. should i get the black ice and a small picasso or should i get a small picasso and larger picasso and hope the larger one is a different batch. or should i go and get a regular looking percula to pair with the small picasso.

 

[REEFBUILDER1]

i just gave my maroon away. what do you think about the big one being ocellaris and the small being percula. will it matter??

It does not matter i think you will have nice babies if you buy one snowflake and one picasso remember 1 HUGE one and 1 TINY one

 

[hotelbravo]

I bought the black ice about 1.5 inch. And a picasso about 0.75 inches.

 

[phender]

Disagree. Given all the available science it is very naive to say that inbreeding will cause no adverse effects for 8 generations. It is illegal for humans in all 50 states for a reason. Sadly it is this attitude that adds to the captive bred deformity issue. Also, given that we know that designer clowns are often inbred as it is, why would you add another layer to the problem? Also, even assuming that it takes 8 generations, we have a responsibility to break the chain when we can.

Sorry, 8 generations is what the science says. There is a problem however called "outcrossing depression" that can cause total loss of a population in as little as 3 generations.
Humans are not clownfish, nor are they subject to the same environmental pressures that tend to weed out defective genes.
If you have ever bred and raised clownfish, you would know that the deformity issues that we have with designer clowns has nothing to do with inbreeding. It has to do with environmental factors during fry development. When I was raising clowns I was able to eliminate 99% of all flared gills, undershot mouths, humped shoulders and even mis-barrs simply by being more meticulous with my husbandry and using top quality food.
We have deformed designer clowns because there is no motivation for the hatcheries to clean up their acts. People still buy the deformed ones at the same price they buy non-deformed ones. There is no reason to hire more staff or buy/raise better food.
I didn't tell the OP to make sure to purchase siblings to create his breeding pair. I was just trying to let him know that if he did, he wouldn't end up with mutant babies.

 

[phender]

I bought the black ice about 1.5 inch. And a picasso about 0.75 inches.

Sounds like a good choice. Hope they end up making nice babies for you.

 

[hotelbravo]

I posted a new thread with pictures of the two. I was a little off on my on-the-spot measurement for the smaller clown he is a little closer to 1 inch. But the black ice is still larger.