Yet another cycling question

[Virtual Balboa]

I have observed a few things going on with my new tank that seem odd to me I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

10/5/14
I set up a new tank and filled it with RO water from the local lfs. At that time I bought a 2 lb live rock that I was planning on using to seed the dry rock I had coming from BRS. So the day I added the water and rock I checked ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to get used to testing the water. All were 0.

10/8/14
I got the dry rock and scrubbed it with some water from the tank. I put a couple pieces in the tank to cure it. Then the next day I decided the rocks I had put in were too huge and took them out.

10/11/14
I sorted through the dry rock I had, scrubbed it off again, and built an aquascape I still have in the tank now.

10/12/14
water test:
ammonia 2.0 ppm
nitrite 1.0 ppm
nitrate 20 ppm (!??)

10/17/14
water test:
ammonia .5 ppm
nitrite 2.0-5.0 ppm (I couldn't tell)
nitrate 40 ppm (!??)

Today:
ammonia 0
nitrite .25
didn't test nitrate

I have been running a skimmer the whole time. Temp has been 80F. And did two 20% water changes (weekly) because I read that doing water changes will prolong the cycle which is fine with me. I'm waiting for my lighting. I also wanted to get used to mixing salt and doing water changes.

Am I not getting a cycle? Or is it going fast? The high nitrate levels have me a little confused. Also, my dry rock is turning white.

 

[thegrun]

Under normal conditions I would not perform a water change, by doing so you effectively removed ammonia needed to fuel a cycle. Your test data indicates your tank has nearly completed the cycle, but because of the water changes I suspect the cycle was a very weak one and you may still experience an ammonia spike once you introduce livestock to the tank since you most likely do not have a large bacteria population. I would either add some pure ammonia or a dead raw shrimp in an attempt to start another robust cycle. If you go the ammonia route use pure ammonia without surfactants (available at most hardware stores). To be sure the ammonia does not contain surfactants shake the bottle and if it bubbles up like dish soap it has surfactants in it, pure ammonia will not have bubbles. To raise 100 gallons of water from 0 to 2 ppm ammonia you would need to add 0.8 grams (8 ml) of standard 10% pure ammonia, so if you use 10% ammonia you would need to add about 1.5ml to get to a 2ppm level. Once the ammonia and subsequent nitrites then drop to zero perform a water change and you should be safe to slowly begin adding livestock.

 

[Virtual Balboa]

Under normal conditions I would not perform a water change, by doing so you effectively removed ammonia needed to fuel a cycle. Your test data indicates your tank has nearly completed the cycle, but because of the water changes I suspect the cycle was a very weak one and you may still experience an ammonia spike once you introduce livestock to the tank since you most likely do not have a large bacteria population. I would either add some pure ammonia or a dead raw shrimp in an attempt to start another robust cycle. If you go the ammonia route use pure ammonia without surfactants (available at most hardware stores). To be sure the ammonia does not contain surfactants shake the bottle and if it bubbles up like dish soap it has surfactants in it, pure ammonia will not have bubbles. To raise 100 gallons of water from 0 to 2 ppm ammonia you would need to add 0.8 grams (8 ml) of standard 10% pure ammonia, so if you use 10% ammonia you would need to add about 1.5ml to get to a 2ppm level. Once the ammonia and subsequent nitrites then drop to zero perform a water change and you should be safe to slowly begin adding livestock.

Thank you for your response it's greatly appreciated. I was thinking I shouldn't have changed the water. If I use a shrimp to restart the cycle, do I use a whole shrimp or a piece of it? Do I let it sit there for days or just until the ammonia reaches 2.0? :fish2:

 

[thegrun]

For a 29 gallon system use a whole shrimp and either leave it in the tank untill it rots away or when your ammonia reaches 6ppm.

 

[Virtual Balboa]

Thank you I understand. Since both methods work would you recommend one over the other? Would pure ammonia make my apartment smell better than if I had a dead shrimp in the tank? It seems like I might have more control if adding ammonia in measured amounts rather then putting the shrimp in the tank. And if I were to use pure ammonia would I want to add it until the level was 6 ppm as well?

 

[thegrun]

For years I used the dead shrimp method, it is tried and true, but the last few tanks I cycled I've used ammonia and I like it better. It is a few days faster since you don't have to wait for the shrimp to decompose to start the cycle; you have ammonia from day one. I don't think it smells nearly as bad. The initial ammonia smell is stronger; but that smell is gone within a few hours and I prefer it over the lovely smell of a rotting shrimp. I suspect the shrimp method gives you a longer duration of ammonia production, but I overcome that by starting to add a small pinch of dry flake fish food daily after a week into the cycle (I'm not sure if this pinch of food is even necessary but other than adding a little more nitrate to the system at the end of the cycle there is no harm in adding it). In the end either method works well IMHO.

 

[Virtual Balboa]

That's too funny. Yeah I think I'll go with adding straight ammonia. What should I want my ammonia level to check after I add it?

 

[Jritter02]

If you have high ammonia and your other levels are low (at the beginning of a cycle) then your cycle is just starting. Once you start showing nitrites and nitrates your ammonia levels should start to go down. Then your nitrite Will lower while your nitrates go up. After that your nitrates will also fall, completing the cycle. Am I correct here guys or did I just make myself look like an idiot? I've only been in the hobby about 6 months myself but this is how I understand how the cycle works.

 

[Virtual Balboa]

If you have high ammonia and your other levels are low (at the beginning of a cycle) then your cycle is just starting. Once you start showing nitrites and nitrates your ammonia levels should start to go down. Then your nitrite Will lower while your nitrates go up. After that your nitrates will also fall, completing the cycle. Am I correct here guys or did I just make myself look like an idiot? I've only been in the hobby about 6 months myself but this is how I understand how the cycle works.

That sounds correct as far as everything I've been reading. If you look at my numbers when I started the tank it indicates that it cycled very fast. Like too fast. I never had a real high spike of ammonia or nitrite. Thegrun suggested that by changing the water twice after I started cycling that I removed ammonia I needed in the water. Which forced it to cycle so fast that the amount of beneficial bacteria is probably very low. To the point that I would have issues if I tried to add any critters at this point. He's suggesting to me that I restart the cycle so that I get a good high ammonia level that will create more nitrites and more beneficial bacteria in the long run. And that sounds more along the lines of what I was thinking which is why I made the post in the first place. Now I hope I'm correct

 

[Jritter02]

I wouldn't say it cycled TOO fast....been almost 3 weeks since you added the original water.

 

[Virtual Balboa]

The way I understand it is that the idea is just a get a good solid cycle that should improve the likelihood that I wouldn't get an ammonia spike which might kill the fish I put in my tank. I've been reading about how people will dose straight ammonia multiple times over weeks during a fish-less cycle to build up their bacteria population. They'll let the ammonia go up then down then add more ammonia and let the level go down again. Then again everyone has a different way of doing things so there's a lot of conflicting information out there. I'm not in a hurry here btw. So doing it right the first time is my goal.