Zoanthids And Acanthastrea
- Thread starter tim011072
- Start date
flycasterjosh
New member
Hi Tim,
Ditto on Ferrits caps comment. What the zoa's really need is proper lighting more than anything. If you have any other bioload in there, I am guessing there will be some left over goodies afterfeeding for them. I know it sounds simple, but in general that has been my experience. I do not know anything about acan's. Sorry.
Ditto on Ferrits caps comment. What the zoa's really need is proper lighting more than anything. If you have any other bioload in there, I am guessing there will be some left over goodies afterfeeding for them. I know it sounds simple, but in general that has been my experience. I do not know anything about acan's. Sorry.
college429
Member
I have:
1. super dazzling lizard eye boysenberry creamsicle
....sorry I couldn't resist. These names are just killing me. Ha ha ha.
cschweitzer
New member
Names are just for product placement, yes. But, at the same time, with the amount of zoa type and species, names can many times lead to different conclusions on specific issues arising and also help determine the type of specific needs for that coral(i.e. food, placement in tank, including lighting and flow needs, and water quality needs).
For example, RPE's and PPE's are completely different than F&I and radioactive dragon eyes, mainly on size, shape, parameter needs, feeding cycle, feeding options, etc. Always good to know what type of zoos you have and I for one am glad for the naming(even though it skews the pricing horribly).
I feed whole mysis to my people eaters...imagine trying that with dragon eyes or similar polyps. Zoaid.com not only names zoanthids, but if you look at the info provided on their page it tells quite a bit about the different zoo types.
I feed once every 1-2 weeks. I feed a mixture of foods and dependant on zoo size I feed different things. I mainly spot feed my tank(with skimmers and pumps off) with a home mixture of squid, oysters, raw table shrimp, fish, mysis shrimp, scallops, enriched with DT's oyster eggs, coral vibrance, selcon, and garlic. Gives a variety and have had good results for everything I feed, including lots and lots of zoos, leathers, mushrooms, various lps, and very limited sps.
For example, RPE's and PPE's are completely different than F&I and radioactive dragon eyes, mainly on size, shape, parameter needs, feeding cycle, feeding options, etc. Always good to know what type of zoos you have and I for one am glad for the naming(even though it skews the pricing horribly).
I feed whole mysis to my people eaters...imagine trying that with dragon eyes or similar polyps. Zoaid.com not only names zoanthids, but if you look at the info provided on their page it tells quite a bit about the different zoo types.
I feed once every 1-2 weeks. I feed a mixture of foods and dependant on zoo size I feed different things. I mainly spot feed my tank(with skimmers and pumps off) with a home mixture of squid, oysters, raw table shrimp, fish, mysis shrimp, scallops, enriched with DT's oyster eggs, coral vibrance, selcon, and garlic. Gives a variety and have had good results for everything I feed, including lots and lots of zoos, leathers, mushrooms, various lps, and very limited sps.
college429
Member
It would be better if the naming convention was based on the description rather than hype. For example, dragon eyes or eye of ra says nothing of the shape, form or color. A better naming convention would be color and form. Such as long tentacled green centered yellow skirted, etc.
cschweitzer
New member
What would you call eagle eyes? Green rim, blue ring, orange ring, purple center zoos? Long name for a nickname.
Also, for example, what would be the difference between these three in description by color or size:
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=442
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=339
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=829
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1248
They are definitely different zoanthids and their descriptions would be almost exactly the same. This is just one quick example I found. The idea you have for a naming convention is a great theory, but it would need to be much more in detail than just long or short skirt and center color. It would need to take into account the patterning of the color(i.e. solid, striated, mixed, speckled, fade, etc), true spectral color, not just blue, green, red, but actual 256, 256, 256 coloration and even then this does not consider lighting, feeding, and such which will cause differences in the exact same zoanthid.
Another factor is the type of zoanthid. http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=2404 explains the true taxonomic differences that would have to be taken into account with coloration. A naming system based on a specific name for each classification takes all of these factors into account.
By calling a zoanthid a PPE or RPE, we can deduce its species as zoanthus gigantus as stated here: http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=2459 (not actually palythoas, but closely related to them) if we put any effort into finding out. We know the color the form, the shape, the size, and the distinct characteristics of this polyp. Sure, it comes with a price tag, but that tag was created by the hype the coral received, not because they were named PPE. If someone claimed a dragon eye zoanthid as a PPE, people would know and not pay $50+ per polyp. If you know anything about zoanthids, it's that a name does not make a coral nice. In fact, despite how amazingly "rare" (not really, but for the sake of arguement...) PPE's are, they are not my favorite zoanthid. In fact, my favorites I ended up paying $2 per polyp for, well under what PPE's go for.
Also, for example, what would be the difference between these three in description by color or size:
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=442
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=339
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=829
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1248
They are definitely different zoanthids and their descriptions would be almost exactly the same. This is just one quick example I found. The idea you have for a naming convention is a great theory, but it would need to be much more in detail than just long or short skirt and center color. It would need to take into account the patterning of the color(i.e. solid, striated, mixed, speckled, fade, etc), true spectral color, not just blue, green, red, but actual 256, 256, 256 coloration and even then this does not consider lighting, feeding, and such which will cause differences in the exact same zoanthid.
Another factor is the type of zoanthid. http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=2404 explains the true taxonomic differences that would have to be taken into account with coloration. A naming system based on a specific name for each classification takes all of these factors into account.
By calling a zoanthid a PPE or RPE, we can deduce its species as zoanthus gigantus as stated here: http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=2459 (not actually palythoas, but closely related to them) if we put any effort into finding out. We know the color the form, the shape, the size, and the distinct characteristics of this polyp. Sure, it comes with a price tag, but that tag was created by the hype the coral received, not because they were named PPE. If someone claimed a dragon eye zoanthid as a PPE, people would know and not pay $50+ per polyp. If you know anything about zoanthids, it's that a name does not make a coral nice. In fact, despite how amazingly "rare" (not really, but for the sake of arguement...) PPE's are, they are not my favorite zoanthid. In fact, my favorites I ended up paying $2 per polyp for, well under what PPE's go for.
college429
Member
I'm sorry. I have to disagree. All I see are deep blue zoos and pale blue zoos.
We don't have 20 different names for blond, brunette or red heads.
Yes, some family's of zoos have different feeding styles such as short and long polyped and palys. But I really think your splitting hairs.
We don't have 20 different names for blond, brunette or red heads.
Yes, some family's of zoos have different feeding styles such as short and long polyped and palys. But I really think your splitting hairs.
college429
Member
That's my point.
They are so similar looking in many cases, why have different names for the same species and sub-species when the only difference is a slight shade of color for some. A slight variation of color shade within species does not merit a completely different common name.
We call Labradores, yellow labs, brown labs and black labs. We don't call them black crazy dragon labradores.
They are so similar looking in many cases, why have different names for the same species and sub-species when the only difference is a slight shade of color for some. A slight variation of color shade within species does not merit a completely different common name.
We call Labradores, yellow labs, brown labs and black labs. We don't call them black crazy dragon labradores.
cschweitzer
New member
Auburn, amber, straberry, red, blonde, platinum, dirty blonde, blech blonde, brown, burnt sienna, goldenrod, golden...go to a Walmart or Walgreens and go to their hair products aisle. See how many colors there actually are besides the three you mentioned.
Did you read the links I posted? There are many different zoos than just short and long polyped. Heck people eaters are their own species of genus zoantus. They are not even a palythoa like most tend to believe. You're telling me they eat just like an eagle eye or a dragon eye? Not likely... Splitting hairs goes a lot further in depth than I have. I'm just saying the names would get way too complicated without a generalized classification. Are you a **** sapien, a human, a person, a man/woman(depending), John Doe(not actually your name, but pretend it is), a number(as SS# states that you are) or a bipedal animal with opposable thumbs? The correct answer is all of them. Most people, when asked will say the John Doe, because it is a way to recognize them from just another human. It is not a way to specify that you are the only John Doe, though. That is what a SS# does. Most people would rather not be classified as a number, though.
Obviously, not taking into the moral issue which would cause conflict within onesself by saying all people of Spanish descent look alike, or all caucasian people look alike, why not just call everyone who is of caucasian descent "white guy"? Why give it the name of John Doe? To discern it from all others of its general characteristics. Yes, it may eat the same, act the same, be of the same species, even have similar color patterns, but it is different and unique from all others. It has DNA, it replicates, it breathes and eats and is a completely different being than another one that looks kind of like it.
I'm not trying to start arguements, but I do love to let my opinion be known and wholeheartedly enjoy hearing other's opinions on the subject also. I used to think naming destroyed the hobby and valued corals incorrectly, but when I started thinking about it, it is understandable. It is the best way we have as of right now to understand similar characteristics between two corals and to differentiate between two(or four in the example I gave above) similar, but unique and distinct corals. All you see in those four pictures are shades of blue, but classify each shade as unique without using anything outside of visible light spectrum and you will conclude it is impossible without nicknames.
Heck, even cobalt is a nickname for a certain color of blue heavy spectrum, as is teal, sky, aquamarine, topaz, etc. These are just names given to an idea of a shade of color. Without these names, you are left with no way to describe a zoanthid without the scientific taxonomy. So just go on to the selling forums and say zoos for sale, $1 per polyp without any description and see what happens. Heck, even give pixel-by-pixel coloration of the zoanthid(again, using the 256,256,256 RGB scale, which still does not include every single color) and still 99.999% of the people will not be able to understand without a description, a recreation of the pixel and color scale, or a picture in front of them.
cschweitzer
New member
Also, you're hair example doesn't tell me whether it is short hair, long hair, shaved, styled...Is it blocked or tapered in the back? Is it curly, wavy, or straight? Is it fine or thick? Is it oily or dry? Does it have bangs? Does it have sideburns?
cschweitzer
New member
What, kind of like Red PE's, Purple PE's, Stardust PE's, green PE's, Icy Star PE's, etc?
If there was a black lab with white spots all over it, would it still be a black lab? I didn't know a labrador was a species, I thought all labs regardless of color are caninis familiaris. That would conclude that naming a dog by type by common features, like a labrador or a retriever would be inccorect naming. Also, do you think a pure bred lab is expensive because it is called a lab? By adding a color to the front of labrador, or by adding labrador to the end of familiaris is meriting it a totally different common name. You don't call a lab a retriever. You call it a lab. Just like you don't call a dragon eye a people eater, you call it a dragon eye.
I thought that's exactly what you didn't want.
ReefArtist
In Memoriam
Have you ever studied plant life? I grow Orchids and the genus and species names are a must for proper care. I can say I have a Cattleya orchid but without the species and sometimes the variation name - I would not be giving these plants proper care. They may look the same to the untrained eye but to an experienced grower they are very different and at times require completely different care. The bottom line is to give these living creatures the best of care. I really don't know if that shift in color makes a difference in its care or not, but it will help me when I do research to find out. Why is the color different â€"œ sometimes lighting, eating etc will change pigments of living things? Just some different ideas of the reasons for the naming.
college429
Member
I think it is very possible without nicknames. Or even better with more descriptive nicknames. If it is a light blue zoo...call it a light blue zoo. Names like Dragon eyes, have no description at all and are only intended for hype.
If you are concerned about care...then the scientific name is more important.
If you are concerned about care...then the scientific name is more important.
ReefArtist
In Memoriam
I guess that's the reason I try to learn the scientific names, then there's no doubt. I'm new to reef keeping and I've really noticed people using the same common name for different species. I've learned to have a list with scientific names when visiting LFS.
cschweitzer
New member
Well, even saying zoanthids or palythoas is too generalized. Unfortunately, unlike acros, zoo's species are relatively untouched by the common reefer. There are also big and common misconceptions about not only the species, but also the genus, as most people will call the people eater zoos as palythoas, which is incorrect. If people would tell the species when saying what they have, we could almost possibly lose the common names, but even then the casual reefcaretaker would be lost.
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