0-10V control Question

[sleepydoc]

So I have a fairly basic (i.e. stupid?) question about control voltage for lights, pumps, etc.

Many controllers have a variable control voltage output for controlling lights & pumps. Apex and Digital Aquatics list the output as 0-10V. Profilux lists it as 1-10V.

I'm looking at getting a profilux controller and wondering if I hook it up to my Waveline DC10000 pump will setting it to 1V actually turn the pump all the way off? Similarly, will 1V turn LED lights all the way off?

 

[mcgyvr]

All depends on the equipment..
In general the answer is "probably not"..

 

[oreo57]

0-10 or 1-10 .. not sure any go "all the way" off anyways..Usually that is what the relay block is for..

Not familiar w/ this unit though..and any Apex control writeups don't seem to have the answers.
Need to know if zero on Apex shuts it off..
There is an "off switch" (temporaary) on the controller itself..

The controller included with the pump allows you to easily adjust the flow rate from 11 different speeds to suite the exact needs of your system. Change the flow rate by simply pressing a button. A feed button allows you to temporary turn off your return pump while you feed your fish and automatically turns back on after 30 minutes.

did read that according to some the pump only has 6 speeds re: of Apex signal..something about the unit "over-riding" the apex signal.. no idea if this is fact or fiction.

 

[luisagos]

It's a bad design on the profilux.

If the pump is 0 to 10 then no.
1 volt should be 10%

 

[oreo57]

0-10v or 1-10 both bad designs really.. Just happens to be "industry standard"..
anyways:

H2O SYSTEMS INC.
Mississauga, Canada L4Y 4G6
Phone: +1 416 565 3572 Fax: +1 888 338 2909
www.rlss.ca

 

[mcgyvr]

"neither" is really a "bad" design..
Its exactly as designed per IEC 60929..
1V is defined as "minimum light output" for lighting ballasts and anything under 1V is accepted as the "minimum" still...

Its not intended to do "on/off" control but rather "dimming"...
Some manufacturers went a step above (which we all seem to like) and decided that their "minimum" would be off.. Most don't so a separate relay is needed to turn the device off..

 

[luisagos]

"neither" is really a "bad" design..
Its exactly as designed per IEC 60929..
1V is defined as "minimum light output" for lighting ballasts and anything under 1V is accepted as the "minimum" still...

Its not intended to do "on/off" control but rather "dimming"...
Some manufacturers went a step above (which we all seem to like) and decided that their "minimum" would be off.. Most don't so a separate relay is needed to turn the device off..

Bad design does not mean not to specs.

Profilux owners need to waste a extra socket to turn it off, while the others do not.
I see your point now.

 

[mcgyvr]

Bad design does not mean not to specs.

Profilux owners need to waste a extra socket to turn it off, while the others do not.
I see your point now.

Profilux has don't NOTHING wrong..

1V does NOT mean it should be off.. Neither does 0V..
Both are exactly the same and should be the "minimum" output from the lights..

Both profilux users and Apex users,etc... both need to use a relay to turn the device off...

 

[luisagos]

Profilux has don't NOTHING wrong..

1V does NOT mean it should be off.. Neither does 0V..
Both are exactly the same and should be the "minimum" output from the lights..

Both profilux users and Apex users,etc... both need to use a relay to turn the device off...

In automaton world 0 volts = 0%

 

[mcgyvr]

In automaton world 0 volts = 0%

Well.. This ain't the "automation world" necessarily... This is lighting dimming (specifically current sink) and the standard is clear.. 1 or 0V = "minimum" light output...
Minimum for this does not equal off...

 

[oreo57]

In automaton world 0 volts = 0%

Like I said "industry standard".. Look at any 0-10V LED driver.. Does not go "off"..

 

[luisagos]

0% never means its off.

Its mean zero output. Most dimmers has a zero output around 5%.

FYI, Profilux can output less than 1v, you got to hack the ini files.
That was the case few years back.

Back to my point, not being able to go below 1v is a bad design.

 

[luisagos]

Like I said "industry standard".. Look at any 0-10V LED driver.. Does not go "off"..

Yes it does, you need to calibrate the drivers.
Also depends on what drivers you have.

 

[n2585722]

I used the 0-10v output on a DA ALC and it did turn off the lights at 0 volts. In fact it would not turn on the lights till about .8 volts and then they were at 10%. I quit using 0-10v outputs for lighting. I now use PWM outputs to control my lights. They now get a lot dimmer before they drop out. With the Archon I have 2 PWM outputs and I have a AVC module with 4 outputs that are configured to PWM 5v for a total of 6 channels of light control.

 

[oreo57]

0% never means its off.

Its mean zero output. Most dimmers has a zero output around 5%.

FYI, Profilux can output less than 1v, you got to hack the ini files.
That was the case few years back.

Back to my point, not being able to go below 1v is a bad design.

depends what you are designing for..

Yes it does, you need to calibrate the drivers.
Also depends on what drivers you have.

well your right.. Meanwell ELN drivers will dim to 5% or 20% depending on "flavor". That is in a range of 1-10V btw.. <1V and it just "drops out" and can experience "diode flash" below 1V if drivers are removed from mains..

The output current level of the dimmable driver is controlled by DC voltage (1-10V) applied to the control terminals (blue and white). The light output of LEDs is controlled by the amount of output current from the dimmable driver.

The 0-1V range is useless..as a control signal it also has problems..
0-10V versus 4-20 mA

When it comes to sensor interface signals, 0-10V is like vanilla ice cream or, if you prefer, a Chevy Cavalier. It’s nothing fancy, but it get’s the job done. It’s common, it’s straightforward, it’s easy to troubleshoot, and nearly every industrial controller on the planet will accept a 0-10V sensor signal. However, there are some downsides. All analog signals are susceptible to electrical interference, and a 0-10V signal is certainly no exception. Devices such as motors, relays, and “noisy” power supplies can induce voltages onto signal lines that can degrade the 0-10V sensor signal. Also, a 0-10V signal is susceptible to voltage drops caused by wire resistance, especially over long cable runs.

A 4-20 mA or 0-20 mA signal, on the other hand, offers increased immunity to both electrical interference and signal loss over long cable runs. And most newer industrial controllers will accept current signals. As an added bonus, a 4-20 mA signal provides inherent error condition detection since the signal, even at its lowest value, is still active. Even at the extreme low end, or “zero” position, the sensor is still providing a 4 mA signal. If the value ever goes to 0 mA, something is wrong. The same can not be said for a 0-10V sensor. Zero volts could mean zero position, or it could mean that your sensor has ceased to function.

POINT is "standard" isn't always best..

getting back to the o/p still don't know if the pump "actually" does stepless speed control..

Just because it can use 0-10V doesn't mean it is step-less..

e.g...

The controller
provides a 5-step output voltage regulation due to 0-10V DC input signal....
A PCB power-electronic module measures external signal and switches
on a relay on particular autotransformers tap according to signals level.

They need to contact the pump manuf. to confirm things..it could, from my limited reading just "step" w/ a voltage signal range, say 0=0-1.5V.. 1.5-3V= 15% ect ect..
the rest of this is just chatter..