'05 24g JBJ Nanocube Resurrection (I'm Back!)

[MNtadpole]

Well I’m starting to see some algae or diatom growth on the rocks and sand bed. Any idea of which? From the sounds of it most people just say to ride out the ugly stage without worrying about doing any treatment, outside of the typical cleanup maintenance. Is that true?

I don’t have a clean up crew yet in the tank. Should I wait until the growth increases before getting a crew? Based on the size of the tank do you have recommendations on which snails,crabs, shrimp?

The NanoCube only has a sponge, carbon, and bio-ball/ceramic filtration going. No protein skimmer.

BTW I just added a XP Aqua Duetto 2 ATO this week. That thing is the bee’s knees!! I added a 5gal Innovative Marine ATO tank below - fancy product.

 

[griss]

Looks like diatoms to me. I personally just ride out the ugly stage and do regular water changes.

For a clean up crew, I think it’s personal preference. I like a mix of snails, hermits and urchins.

Reef Cleaners has a package where you can get a random mix of hermits. I’ve bought that several times.

Trochus snails (IMO) are some of the best. Turbos and Ceriths are also useful. I don’t care for Astrea snails as they can’t right themselves if they fall and land upside down.

 

[hvcreefer]

Hanna Checkers for sure

 

[MNtadpole]

I went to the LFS and got about a half-dozen inverts to conduct warfare against the diatoms. I am seeing some green algae growing where the diatom is not.

 

[Reefing102]

Looking good. Coming along

 

[griss]

Looking good. Coming along

This!!!

 

[Dustin07]

is that GSP down there on the bottom? I know some people think of it as a weed but I absolutely love watching it take over and it creates so much color and flow/character in the tank.

for CUC I'm sloppy... my wife and both love shrimp so we get them from time to time when they're affordable. the price on cleaners now days is stupid high out here, like $50 for a shrimp? pass... but I tend to get 2-3 different kinds of snails at a time for our 40g and mix them up. I have a conch in our 40g I bought last winter that's doing well. I love nassarius. last weekend she got 4 more bumblebee snails for our nano (4g) because they stand out against the black backwall and black sand.

aside from that we have an urchin, and our emerald crabs are HUGE now. like 4-6" fully outstretched. they've actually successfully had babies so we've moved an emerald baby (free CUC! lol) to our nano tank and the huge ones we call King Kong, but they're very delicate around our softies.

 

[MNtadpole]

is that GSP down there on the bottom? I know some people think of it as a weed but I absolutely love watching it take over and it creates so much color and flow/character in the tank.

for CUC I'm sloppy... my wife and both love shrimp so we get them from time to time when they're affordable. the price on cleaners now days is stupid high out here, like $50 for a shrimp? pass... but I tend to get 2-3 different kinds of snails at a time for our 40g and mix them up. I have a conch in our 40g I bought last winter that's doing well. I love nassarius. last weekend she got 4 more bumblebee snails for our nano (4g) because they stand out against the black backwall and black sand.

aside from that we have an urchin, and our emerald crabs are HUGE now. like 4-6" fully outstretched. they've actually successfully had babies so we've moved an emerald baby (free CUC! lol) to our nano tank and the huge ones we call King Kong, but they're very delicate around our softies.

Yes, that is a free frag of GSP that I received from the LFS when I bought my Picasso Clown pair. At first I was worried that I was going to kill the colony, but it's doing really well. I think it's about time that I provide an aquarium update.

 

[MNtadpole]

Aquarium Update:
A lot has changed in since I last posted.

Livestock Added:
-A Yellow Watchman Goby/Tiger Pistol Shrimp pair was added.
-Purple/Green Frogspawn -Wife surprised me with a rather pricey single head frag.

Equipment Added:
-InTank media tray added in chamber one (running floss, carbon, and ceramic bio)
-Tunze 9001 protein skimmer
-Hanna Checkers (Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphate URL, Phosphate LR)
-Salifert Alk test.

Currently, I'm trying to dial-in the Tunze 9001. I'm experimenting with different water levels in chamber two. The first 24hrs of running the skimmer produced some decent skimmate. Oddly enough, the skimmer stopped producing foam this evening during my feeding/inspection/ parameter checks. I'm hoping it's a break-in thing. I think that it's far too much of a coincidence that the aquarium would have been stripped of all built up organics within that 24hr run time. I'll give it a week break in and check back. I was also hopping to see a recordable change in the pH with the added oxygen, but my values have gone unchanged.

I've added a handful of Hanna Checkers, which I'm excited to try out. I bought them all second-hand, so I'm still waiting on the reagents to arrive before I can test those parameters. I'm curious to see what my phosphates look like. I've been battling what appears to either be brown cyano or diatom for about 3 weeks. Hair algae has started showing up. My thoughts is that my relatively small 3 times a day feedings of frozen foods might be causing a build up of phosphates driving the growth. I'll post the results of the phosphate tests as the reagents arrive.

Frequent Paramets w/ Weekly 10% WC:
Salinity: 35ppt
Alk: 7.3dkh
pH: 7.3(morning)-7.8(evening)
Ammo: 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20ppm


GSP and the Purple/Green Frogspawn. You can make out the algae bloom at the front bottom.

Yellow Watchman Goby

 

[griss]

Look great. Love the goby/shrimp pair.

 

[Dustin07]

that's a great frogspawn start, I bet the colors are awesome in person.
I really need to understand skimmers better, I have never used one. It's another toy that interests me in the potential tank upgrade this winter.

 

[MNtadpole]

It appears that I am running a higher than ideal level of phosphates in the tank.

Hanna LR Phosphate Checker measured .14ppm
Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker measured .21ppm

I'm going to assume that the degree of accuracy of the ULR is better, so I guess I'll focus on that one.

Current Parameters:
Salinity: 35ppt
Alk: 7.3dkh
pH: 7.3(morning)-7.8(evening)
Ammo: 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20ppm
Phosphate: .21ppm

 

[griss]

It appears that I am running a higher than ideal level of phosphates in the tank.

Hanna LR Phosphate Checker measured .14ppm
Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker measured .21ppm

I'm going to assume that the degree of accuracy of the ULR is better, so I guess I'll focus on that one.

Current Parameters:
Salinity: 35ppt
Alk: 7.3dkh
pH: 7.3(morning)-7.8(evening)
Ammo: 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20ppm
Phosphate: .21ppm

First, how does the tank look? I’ve found that chasing numbers often leads to bad things. If the tank looks good…no problem.

 

[MNtadpole]

First, how does the tank look? I’ve found that chasing numbers often leads to bad things. If the tank looks good…no problem.

Griss, to be honest the tank is still in its ugly stage I'm sure. I believe I'm going on about 4 weeks of having nasties carpeting the sand bed. This week the tank started developing hair algae, and it appears to be growing quickly. My CUC is only snails, so I doubt they will do anything about the hair algae My main concern is not taking action soon enough, assuming there is action I can take. I only get maybe a day or two after cleaning the sand bed and performing a WC before the crap returns.

I can't determine if what's in the sand bed is diatom or brown cyano, but it does appear to recede during the night and totally goes wild during the day.

I just tonight flicked the aquarium to 50% daytime for this photo-op. Let me know what you're thinking!

 

[griss]

I'll preface this by saying, I'm no expert in dealing with diatoms or dinos.

Can you get a close up (preferably under white light) of the hair algae? I want to make sure it's not Bryopsis.

The dusting on the sand could be either diatoms or cyano based on the pics. The first and second pics make me think diatoms but the third pic makes me think cyano. Could be both.

A while back, I had the worst cyano issue I've had in 40+ years of reef keeping. Admittedly, I only test when something doesn't look right. I was literally trying everything and finally figured out my cyano issue was actually an imbalance in NO3 and PO4. I had absolutely ZERO PO4 and NO3 was around 10. The cyano was able to thrive because it can utilize just nitrate, just phosphate or both and other algae need both to thrive. In my case, there wasn't enough phosphate for other algae to compete with the cyano. But, that's obviously not this issue in your tank as both nitrate and phosphate are high. In the end, I removed the GFO from my media reactor and increased water changes and feeding and poof, my cyano issue went away. Here's the thread about it if you're interested.

So, your Nitrate and Phosphate are a bit high and your Alkalinity and pH are a little low.

If you bring the nitrate and phosphate down and keep them in balance, the algae (as long as the hair algae isn't Bryopsis) will be easier to keep in check. You can do that through water changes and you might want to consider running some GFO to bring the phosphate down.

Do you know what your calcium levels are? High calcium levels can lead to a lower alkalinity and vice versa. Low alk contributes to a low pH. To increase alk you can either start dosing an alkalinity supplement and/or dripping kalkwasser (I use Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime from Menards).

Another thing to consider with Alk and Ca, is mix up a fresh batch of saltwater and test that. I had an issue a while back with two batches of bad salt. Both batches (same brand but different batch numbers) had super high calcium and super low alkalinity. This was leading to the inability to increase/maintain alkalinity in the tank and, thus, a suppressed pH.

For the pH another thing you can do (assuming your running a skimmer) is to run your airline outside to introduce fresh air. In today's homes, they're generally sealed pretty good and therefore there's a build up of CO2 in the house that leads to a lower pH. Introducing fresh air into the system can help increase pH. BUT, make sure there is no was for pesticides or other chemicals to get into the airline tubing you run outside.

Here are the parameters you want to shoot for:

All that said, take things slow and try to address one issue at a time. I've said it a million times over the years, nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Focus on one thing at a time. In your case, IMO, I would focus on getting the nitrate and phosphate down to acceptable levels. Once those are in check, let's work on your alkalinity and pH.

 

[Dustin07]

but the third pic makes me think cyano

man that was what I thought from the first time I saw that pic but I'm nowhere near as well versed as you guys. I have had 2 or 3 run ins with cyano now though and it no longer 'scares' me, but at very first inkling I attack.

 

[MNtadpole]

I'll preface this by saying, I'm no expert in dealing with diatoms or dinos.

Can you get a close up (preferably under white light) of the hair algae? I want to make sure it's not Bryopsis.

The dusting on the sand could be either diatoms or cyano based on the pics. The first and second pics make me think diatoms but the third pic makes me think cyano. Could be both.

A while back, I had the worst cyano issue I've had in 40+ years of reef keeping. Admittedly, I only test when something doesn't look right. I was literally trying everything and finally figured out my cyano issue was actually an imbalance in NO3 and PO4. I had absolutely ZERO PO4 and NO3 was around 10. The cyano was able to thrive because it can utilize just nitrate, just phosphate or both and other algae need both to thrive. In my case, there wasn't enough phosphate for other algae to compete with the cyano. But, that's obviously not this issue in your tank as both nitrate and phosphate are high. In the end, I removed the GFO from my media reactor and increased water changes and feeding and poof, my cyano issue went away. Here's the thread about it if you're interested.

So, your Nitrate and Phosphate are a bit high and your Alkalinity and pH are a little low.

If you bring the nitrate and phosphate down and keep them in balance, the algae (as long as the hair algae isn't Bryopsis) will be easier to keep in check. You can do that through water changes and you might want to consider running some GFO to bring the phosphate down.

Do you know what your calcium levels are? High calcium levels can lead to a lower alkalinity and vice versa. Low alk contributes to a low pH. To increase alk you can either start dosing an alkalinity supplement and/or dripping kalkwasser (I use Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime from Menards).

Another thing to consider with Alk and Ca, is mix up a fresh batch of saltwater and test that. I had an issue a while back with two batches of bad salt. Both batches (same brand but different batch numbers) had super high calcium and super low alkalinity. This was leading to the inability to increase/maintain alkalinity in the tank and, thus, a suppressed pH.

For the pH another thing you can do (assuming your running a skimmer) is to run your airline outside to introduce fresh air. In today's homes, they're generally sealed pretty good and therefore there's a build up of CO2 in the house that leads to a lower pH. Introducing fresh air into the system can help increase pH. BUT, make sure there is no was for pesticides or other chemicals to get into the airline tubing you run outside.

Here are the parameters you want to shoot for:
View attachment 32405998

All that said, take things slow and try to address one issue at a time. I've said it a million times over the years, nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Focus on one thing at a time. In your case, IMO, I would focus on getting the nitrate and phosphate down to acceptable levels. Once those are in check, let's work on your alkalinity and pH.

Here’s a quick upload of the what I think is hair algae. What do you make of that?

 

[MNtadpole]

I'll preface this by saying, I'm no expert in dealing with diatoms or dinos.

Can you get a close up (preferably under white light) of the hair algae? I want to make sure it's not Bryopsis.

The dusting on the sand could be either diatoms or cyano based on the pics. The first and second pics make me think diatoms but the third pic makes me think cyano. Could be both.

A while back, I had the worst cyano issue I've had in 40+ years of reef keeping. Admittedly, I only test when something doesn't look right. I was literally trying everything and finally figured out my cyano issue was actually an imbalance in NO3 and PO4. I had absolutely ZERO PO4 and NO3 was around 10. The cyano was able to thrive because it can utilize just nitrate, just phosphate or both and other algae need both to thrive. In my case, there wasn't enough phosphate for other algae to compete with the cyano. But, that's obviously not this issue in your tank as both nitrate and phosphate are high. In the end, I removed the GFO from my media reactor and increased water changes and feeding and poof, my cyano issue went away. Here's the thread about it if you're interested.

So, your Nitrate and Phosphate are a bit high and your Alkalinity and pH are a little low.

If you bring the nitrate and phosphate down and keep them in balance, the algae (as long as the hair algae isn't Bryopsis) will be easier to keep in check. You can do that through water changes and you might want to consider running some GFO to bring the phosphate down.

Do you know what your calcium levels are? High calcium levels can lead to a lower alkalinity and vice versa. Low alk contributes to a low pH. To increase alk you can either start dosing an alkalinity supplement and/or dripping kalkwasser (I use Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime from Menards).

Another thing to consider with Alk and Ca, is mix up a fresh batch of saltwater and test that. I had an issue a while back with two batches of bad salt. Both batches (same brand but different batch numbers) had super high calcium and super low alkalinity. This was leading to the inability to increase/maintain alkalinity in the tank and, thus, a suppressed pH.

For the pH another thing you can do (assuming your running a skimmer) is to run your airline outside to introduce fresh air. In today's homes, they're generally sealed pretty good and therefore there's a build up of CO2 in the house that leads to a lower pH. Introducing fresh air into the system can help increase pH. BUT, make sure there is no was for pesticides or other chemicals to get into the airline tubing you run outside.

Here are the parameters you want to shoot for:
View attachment 32405998

All that said, take things slow and try to address one issue at a time. I've said it a million times over the years, nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Focus on one thing at a time. In your case, IMO, I would focus on getting the nitrate and phosphate down to acceptable levels. Once those are in check, let's work on your alkalinity and pH.

1.) If you bring the nitrate and phosphate down and keep them in balance, the algae (as long as the hair algae isn't Bryopsis) will be easier to keep in check. You can do that through water changes and you might want to consider running some GFO to bring the phosphate down.

Do you know what your calcium levels are? High calcium levels can lead to a lower alkalinity and vice versa. Low alk contributes to a low pH. To increase alk you can either start dosing an alkalinity supplement and/or dripping kalkwasser (I use Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime from Menards).

I can test my calcium tonight when I get home from work and let you know. I have a new to me Hanna Checker with new reagents, so we’ll see how that goes. Tonight is my weekly WC day. I typically do a 10% WC, but I’m thinking that I should increase the change to effectively cut the existing NO3 and the PO4. With that being said, maybe I should look at 40%-50%. I did just throw in a Tunze 9001 protein skimmer this week, so moving forward I should be able to cut out some of the accumulation of NO3 and PO4…in theory.

Speaking to the dosing for Alk, I’m kind of looking at the All For Reef product for dosing. I like the idea of dosing Kalk with my ATO, but I would be afraid of a potential failure.


2.)Another thing to consider with Alk and Ca, is mix up a fresh batch of saltwater and test that. I had an issue a while back with two batches of bad salt. Both batches (same brand but different batch numbers) had super high calcium and super low alkalinity. This was leading to the inability to increase/maintain alkalinity in the tank and, thus, a suppressed pH.

So I can go ahead and test the saltwater I’m using, but for full disclosure I’m not currently making my own. I’m purchasing both RO/DI topoff and Saltwater from my LFS. I could go head and ask them what they are using. The unfortunate situation is that I don’t yet own a RO/DI and haven’t yet decided on the best setup at home to cater to the needs of a 24gal nanocube. It’s hard to justify the purchase at this time when the demand of RO and saltwater is relatively small due to the size of the 24gal nano.


3.) All that said, take things slow and try to address one issue at a time. I've said it a million times over the years, nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Focus on one thing at a time. In your case, IMO, I would focus on getting the nitrate and phosphate down to acceptable levels. Once those are in check, let's work on your alkalinity and pH.

Sounds like a good plan to me! I’m hoping that new skimmer shines on cutting DOC prior to NO3 and PO4 build up.

 

[griss]

Here’s a quick upload of the what I think is hair algae. What do you make of that?

I think it's just regular old hair algae. Even if it was Bryopsis, that's not the bane of the hobby it used to be as Flucanozale can eradicate it easily and safely.

 

[MNtadpole]

I think it's just regular old hair algae. Even if it was Bryopsis, that's not the bane of the hobby it used to be as Flucanozale can eradicate it easily and safely.

Well that's good news. Lol with all the variables that I'm trying to tighten down on, it's great to know I don't need to battle a Bryopsis one!