150 Redux

[Ah64av8tor]

Hey all you reef geeks out there. I thought I would document my story here for your enjoyment.

I started a thread on the local club (ACROS) board but thought I should share this with everyone. It started like this. Why do we belong to a club?

We belong to a club for camaraderie, the sharing of information and support. No one thinks twice to ask for info on RC or at their local club meeting. Unfortunately we try to do things first and when it isn’t working as well as we thought then we ask for help and then start over instead for asking for help from the beginning.

Some of you know that I had a bad fall, as seen by the cast at the seining event. Well things got worse and I was laid up for a few months. I could not get around very well and tank maintenance was falling behind, I thought I could manage and was too proud to ask for help.

One of the 9 RBTAs had died and went unnoticed for a few days, as most of you can see where this is going, total crash.

Let this be a lesson no matter what your experience level you can use some help at times and should not think twice to ask for help.

Ok here goes (as I suck up some pride and swallow hard) I’m starting over and looking for some help.

I am moving my old 150 from the X’s house and starting anew so I thought I would get a little help with this project from you great guys and gals here at RC. I had built this 150 into a wall with an 8 X10 fish room behind it. I’m starting a new life with an old tank, now I have a small house and no place for a fish room yet,

Instead of the fish room I’m putting a closet on the end of the stand to house all the equipment. It needs to be very accessible to accommodate my bum knee so I don’t have to kneel so much. It will have doors on both sides for easy access to the sump for cleaning the filter socks and protein skimmer and all the other cool stuff I have.


What I have.
150gal acrylic RR 48L X 24H X 30Deep
several 20gal acrylic tanks Ill use one or two for the refugium
500lbs of dirty sand some dry and some wet
100lbs of base rock has been cooking for months
100lbs of semi live cooking as we speak
2 new IC 250 HQI pendants
2 new XM 10K HQI DE bulbs
2 new IC 660VHO ballasts W/ ends and reflectors for T5s
8 new T5 bulbs actinic and 10K
Iwaki MD100RLT for filter and circulation pump
Iwaki WMD20RLT or Silent Seas T4 for closed loop pump
New Euro Reef 12-1
36” fluidized bed filter
Auto top off W/ Nielsen Reactor
2 old IC 660VHO ballasts W/ ends for T12s
2 old 250 MH tar ballasts W/ Iwasaki 65K bulbs
2 old 4” IC fans

I was thinking of an OM 4 way for the closed loop.

I plan on having the refugium above the tank to gravity feed the main display, and feed the fuge with the return from the Fluidized bed filter at 100 to 150 gph flow at a 7 foot head.

My plan for the lighting is to split the T5 so that there would be 2 actinic and 2 10K over both the main display and the prop tank and have the actinic come on and 30minuts later the 10K come on then have the HQI (over the main display) and the MH (over the prop tank) come on for 6 hours in the mid day and shut down in reverse order for a total photoperiod of 12 hours. I’m thinking of going with the Aqua Controller Jr.
I am concerned about all the heat. I got some louvered shutter doors from a salvage yard which will allow for total flow through ventilation and the 2 4” IC fans. I’m thinking Ill need another pair of fans though.
I had better get started I have a stand to build and a lot of work to do.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Well I just got the case built for the stand and have to start trimming it out and build the closet and hood. It measures 72 wide 40 high and 30 deep.

I used rabbit the joints for the front support columns and used but joints with biscuits’ for the side braces and ¾ ply for the back.

I got these louvered shutter doors from a salvage yard, they were arched but will trim down to 36 X 24 with functioning louvers perfect and only $25 a piece I got all 7 they had, It will be enough to cover the front and sides, but if I cut one side in halve I can use it for the hood. This is what it will look like except there will be a 36 X24 door to the right of the tank leaving it viewable from two sides.

How about some critiques before I get any farther, I would not want this thing to buckle. I think 7 2 X 4s and a sheet of ¾ ply should hold it up, all joints are or will be glued with gorilla glue and screwed with deck screws.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

I have decided that there will be enough air flow in the stand with 4 louvered doors, and I need more air flow in the hood so I’m going to cut one of the doors in half and make two for the hood.

Now I have a few questions.

If I use ¾ ply for the side will I still need the 2 X 4 braces? I plan on having a 90 or 75 gal prop tank in the stand and want to get the full 48” width of the stand. The back corner 2 X 4 will prevent me from sliding the tank all the way in and I will loose a lot of space. I can turn them sideways and only loose about 1 1/2”.

Will a 16” hood be tall enough to fit 2 X IC 250 watt HQI pendants, 4 T5s and give enough access to the tank?

What would be a good height from the water surface for the 250 watt HQI pendants?

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Tonight I dove into the doors for the hood it was a big project. I have 4 doors that measure 36 X 23 ½” that Ill use for the front, 2 doors that measure 36 X 25 ½” that Ill use for the side and 1 door that measure 36 X 24 ½”. I took the odd sized door and cut it down to make 2 doors that measure 17 X 23 ½”,

I had to make 2 new rails, cut the old rails down ½” on each side and cut the louvers ½” on each side so the opening mechanism was centered. Talk about a pain I had to completely disassemble the louvers and drill out the pivots then cut them down, then cut biscuit joints in the stiles and rails reassemble them. They still have to be trimmed after they dry.

The next step is build the case for the closet and hood. and work on the light mounts.

 

[gkarshens]

I think using louvered doors is a great idea. It will allow alot of air movement. Keep up the good work!

 

[Ah64av8tor]

The hood doors were a pain to rebuild, and I don't know what it will look like with 900 watts behind then. but I like the amount of air flow I will get from them.

I was thinking of making the top and back with white melanine board, the white plastic coating will reflect more light back in to the tank and make it easy to wipe of salt.

 

[jeffbrig]

Greg,

The louvered doors are a great idea for ventilation. I think you'll like that. Structurally, your stand should be fine. If it were mine, I probably would have used a few more 2x4s, but overkill is the name of the game if you look at my system closely.

Do you plan to have your prop tank connected to the main system? My only concern is the amount of heat that amount of lighting is going to put into the system. Leave some room in your budget for a chiller just in case...I know I ended up with one after just a few months.

In answer to your questions from my thread, my 250 is 72x30x27 (27 deep). Allowing for acrylic thickness and the overflow, the true tank area is more like 62x28x25. I'm finding that 4 T5s is plenty of light over that area. I have 3 250w DE halides, but I don't even make full use of them. To reduce the load on the chiller, save electricity, etc, I was running only 2 of the halides for 4 hours a day. I reduced that to 2 hours at some point, with no negative impact. Then one of my sockets started acting up, so I switched to the center halide only, still running just 2 hours a day. In all honesty, my corals have never looked better. The halide is ~10" off the water, and I running it mainly for the glitter effect. In the future, I will probably modify the lighting for 2 halides on a permanent basis, and put the other pendant over my coral QT / frag tank.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Jeff,

I think you have more 2 X 4s in one corner than I do total. I might add 1 more 2 X 4 in the center along the back, and some gussets underneath for more support, I'm not afraid of the weight and buckling but racking forward. I will use a piece of ply on the end which should help with stability.

There should be enough room for the prop tank in the stand,and I plan on plumbing it in to the main sump. That means one more pump and that spells HEAT.
I only plan on having the HQI on for around 4 hours a day, which might help.
Budget what's that? I have been looking at chillers though, but the only place I could have one would be with the Tank in the sunroom and that spells more HEATthen the tank would not be in the best viewing spot.

You have gotta love the glitter effect! I will have about 18 inches in the hood to play with and after looking at the pendants and your setup, I think I have an Idea. for hanging them.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

I didn't get much done today, like cleaning 100lbs of sand isn't enough. I smell like fish and clorox.

The A/C went out last week and they finally got here to put in a new one. I spent an hour with the HVAC tech talking about fish and looking into building a chiller. So I guess the day wasn't a total loss.

 

[raddogz]

I used rabbits as well in building the stand for my 120g. I used pocket screws to hold things together.

I think you will be fine for what you have built so far as this is an acrylic tank vs. a glass tank. If you really want to you could re-enforce the corners with corner blocks (just glue and screw them in).

I secured the back with three-quarter inch ply to skin. There is a four inch gap running horizontal for cords, closed-loop, and ventilation. The sides and the front panel will be removable.

So far the tank and stand has survived two minor 4.0 earthquakes here in Calif.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Raddogz,

Earthquake proof is good! Do you have any recommendations for a hurricane?

I don't have the equipment to do pocket screws and don't want to use to use to much metal on the inside of the stand. Ill use gussets in the upper back corners secured with gorilla glue, 1/2' ply and clamps.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Ok it’s been a while so I thought I would update you guys on the situation.
I finally got around to getting all the stuff from storage, it was good thing that my Brother in-law was in town we had 2 truck loads of fish stuff: 150 gal tank, 100gal tank 40gal prop tank 4X 20gal tanks, fluidize bed filter, protein skimmer, 3 pumps, a 55 gal drum of Southdown sand and a load of plumbing and other junk.
The work on the stand continues, I got the doors trimmed down, face frames for the front stand, closet and hood built up the stand face frame sanded and installed. The stand was getting too big for me to work in the shop. I figured that I would move it in the house so I could make sure everything fits; it was a good thing because the hood was ¾ of an inch to tall to fit under the archway. I got the mock up done and am ready to start on the end panels, box out the closet and hood.
Should I leave the top of the hood open for ventilation or will there be enough air flow from the louvered doors?

 

[jeffbrig]

IMO, the more ventilation the better, so I'd leave the top open if you don't mind a little light splash on the ceiling. My system is open-top, and I've never found the light to be a big deal.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Jeff, I was thinking I would use some shade cloth on the top, that would cut the light creep down and still allow heat and air to rise up through it.

I haven’t decided on doing a separate closed loop or just going with a larger return pump. (I have an Iwaki MD-100 RLT lying around but it makes a lot of noise) Either way I was thinking of doing a Calfo type of manifold. I just got a pile of Lock line for the returns, I got 10 X ¾” 6” with MPT ends and nozzles plus a pair of pliers for $55 from a local guy. I haven’t decided if I’m going to drill the Euro brace or just run them over the edge. I don’t want to see all those lines in the tank. The hood comes down 1” below the top of the tank or just below the waterline.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Today I got the face frames for the left side of stand built up. The top has a furniture grade plywood panel insert. On the bottom I will glue and screw ½ inch furniture grade plywood to the frame ( for more support then rabbit out the face frame to go over the plywood.

Three weeks ago I put a hold on a Sailfin Tang at a LFS. Today he was eating well, fat, full of life and so I decided to bring him home, as soon as I got him home I noticed a few spots on his tail. It just goes to show you that you have to QT and treat everything. He is in Isolation now, and I'm going to try one of those reef safe treatments and garlic before I go the copper route. Ill try to snap a pic of him in the morning.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

The Sailfin Tang is looking good (the spots have cleared up) I gave the Kordon Prevent Ich and Garlic a try and after 4 days of a 7 day treatment it looks promising. He is still eating well; he is in QT and eating garlic and flake. He has eaten some Cheato but left the Caulerpa and the red stuff alone.

The sump I ordered from Fish and Other Itchy Things came in on Friday, its 24”L X 30”W X 18”H it will hold aprox 50 gals. It will normally run with a depth of 7” (22gals) of water for optimum performance of the Euro Reef 12-1. I ran the numbers on the sump calculator and it should handle the overflow from the tank (150gal = 12.5gals) and prop tank (40gal = 6gals) the refugium (20gal = 3gals) with a little room to spare for the fluidized bed filter and plumbing.

I mocked up the plumbing to see if the plan will fit. Here is the flow; from the tank overflow box it will exit through 2 X 1” bulkheads one will go to a filter sock in the sump and the other will go to the prop tank then overflow into the filter sock. Then it will take Mr. Toads wild ride around the Euro Reef 12-1 then exit through the other filter sock. The return pump located at the back left side of the sump will send the water up through the 1 ½” return manifold there it will T off to; the main return, 1” pipe through the overflow box with 3 X ¾” lock line returns on the back of the tank, 1” pipe through the closet to the 2 X 10” canisters housing micron filter and phosban/carbon reactor returning to the tank through 2 X ¾” pipe terminating with ¾” lock line returns on the front of the tank, and 1” pipe through the closet to the fluidized bed filter then to the refugium then gravity flow back into the main display tank.

If that wasn’t complicated enough, the question is will the 2 X 1 ¼” Durso’s handle all the flow from a Sequence Barracuda, there is room for 2 X 1 ½” Durso’s in the overflow box. Will I need to go with a 1 ½” bulkheads and 1 ¼” return pipe.

 

[jeffbrig]

How much water do you expect a Barracuda to move with your plumbing configuration? I'm guessing >2000gph, right? 2 x 1" bulkhead drains seems kind of tight. Do you have the option of drilling and going with a larger bulkhead size? If so, I'd do it for peace of mind. I run 2000gph through my overflow, but I have 2 x 1.5", and I know that a single 1.5" can carry all of it, if needed. Two 1" bulkheads have less cross sectional area than a single 1.5", so you might be very close. If a snail gets into the overflow, that could be a serious problem.

Another thing you're going to have fun with is balancing the flow with two dursos in a single overflow box. I tried it for a while, then went with my current setup: a single durso, plus an open drain with a partially restricted gate valve. It's tough to put into words, but I can explain that in more detail when I see you on Saturday.

 

[Ah64av8tor]

Jeff,
I had the Iwaki 100 pushing 2000gph through the 2 X 1 ¼” Durso’s on this tank before and yes the balance caused a few gray hairs. I ended up with one a bout 2” lower than the other and it was handling about 75% of the load.
I think Ill get more than the 2000gph you say but I haven’t tried to figure it out. The Barracuda should push 3500gph at a 5’ head with out the elbows line reductions and filters.
I’m wondering if I go with the 1 ½” bulkheads and stand pipes will I need to choke it down to a 1 ¼” return pipe so the Durso’s work?

 

[jeffbrig]

What's the thinking behind choking down the Duros size? I started out with 1.5" bulkheads and 1.5" dursos. The problem I had was the noise where it dumped into the sump, and amount of bubbles that was creating. With that high of a flow rate, the bubble trap just wasn't terribly effective.

 

[original-reefland]

Greg asked me to toss in my 2 cents on the subject.

I wouldn't push 2x1 inch bulkheads beyond about 1,300 GPH to 1,500 GPH. I wouldn't even consider 2,000 GPH. Several years ago I tried to run with dual recirculation pumps: Iwaki MD70RLT and a MAK4 (that's well over 2,000 GPH). I ran this for about a week and the pipes struggled to keep up. The center glass was under water even after modifying the teeth of the overflow chambers. I turned off the MAK4.

IMO, for the flow rates you want, you should be using 1.5 inch bulkheads. If air bubbles /sound become an issue, then the gate valve as suggested previously works well. Just be sure to use a strainer of some type if you plan on restricting the drains.

I personally don't like high turn over rates between sump and display. For my 180g tank I have a potential for about 10,000 GPH turn over rate in the display using dual Tunze 6100 and Vortecs yet only 1,000 GPH turn over between display and sump.

If I had the skimmer turned off and you were blind folded, you would have no idea a tank was even in the room. It is silent. (The Dual GenX-4100's on my Euro-Reef RC500 currently sound like a pop-corn machine chomping up the air).

Looking like a great setup! A few comments / questions:

1) You are going to seal all that wood right?

2) What you have now looks fine, but I would have doubled up a bit on some of the 2x4's to remove one of the front vertical supports to give you full open access to the sump. On my 180, I built the stand 6 foot wide open for complete unobstructed access to the sump area - used double 2x4 (front to back), double 2x6 length wise and notched 4x4 posts.

3) Consider using flex-PVC or vinyl tube for your drain lines. Rigid PVC drain lines tend to amplify the sound of the air inside them, they can vibrate and bang. The additional friction of various fittings doesn't help either. The smooth gentle turns you would use with flexible pipes works so much better. Something to keep in mind later on if you have issues.

4) The PVC pipe going to the filter sock will need some support. Tie strap to the 2x4 above it or something. I'm sure you already know that, but just in case.

5) Will the right side of the stand be open access? If not, I don't see how you will get that collection cup off the skimmer. Sometimes they are a real PITA to get off even with the lube they provide. You sometimes need to be able to get your body in there to get some leverage.

6) EuroReef's have a nasty habbit of squirting water out of the air intake lines when a recirculation pump jams. I see yours are not recirculation pumps, I'm not sure if your model has the problem or not, but watch where you point them.

Good luck! Looking forward to see how this progresses.