158g Fowlr

elecbzerk

Premium Member
I am buying a complete 158G set up next week. It is currently a reef tank, but i was thinking of converting to FOWLR. My two small sons are always asking me for a puffer, and I cannot house one in my 75G reef tank. So, instead of a larger reef tank, I will make a predator tank. I am hoping someone here on RC might be able to lend advice. My first question is, What type of cleaning crew is kept in a FOWLR?
 
Clean up crew is hard with puffers. They will most likely eat them. I have been lucky that my puffers dont really care about hermit crabs...well they try to eat them but are way too lazy to keep trying once the crab goes in its shell. I have also kept a few HUGE snails with them but other than that, everything else gets eaten.

What kind of puffer are you thinking of? For that size tank, maybe one spiny puffer (ie. porcupine) and one smooth puffer (ie. Dogface) would be nice. Just be careful about mixing similar puffers unless you have a really big tank.

For that size tank, just stay away from puffers like Stars and Stripes, Mappa, and some of the others that get quite large and will outgrow the tank in a year or so. A lot of LFS will tell you they are fine in a tank your size but you will find out pretty fast that those puffers need more room.

The other thing with puffers (or any fish really) is to make sure you feed them a varied diet. I go to a local asian market and pick up bags of mixed sea food including squid, clams, mussels, ect. as well as grabbing a bunch of fresh prawns, mussels, manila clams, squid, ect. Make sure you freeze all these foods before you feed them. Then just rethaw in vitamins and you will have healthy, happy puffers.

Depending on what type you get, you will also have to keep their teeth from overgrowing by feeding stuff like clams and mussels still in the shell so they can grind their teeth down. This is not a problem for porcupine puffers but other species like dogface, it is.

Anyways, hope that helps a bit. Puffers are amazing fish with so much personality but are very messy and get big. You have to be careful not to over stock a tank that has puffers because they really put a heavy load on a system as they get big. My porcupine eats between 2-3 whole prawns by himself about 2-3 times a week! You can imagine how hard that is on the tank.

And the last thing I would say is to QT of course. Puffers are like tangs when it comes to ich. They almost always will get it if they are exposed and most of the time they are in a LFS. No copper though.

Good luck!
 
Thanks Justin! I don't know which puffer I am going to get yet. I was thinking that a dogface might grow too fast, and I knew about the teeth. probably a porcupine, but still deciding/researching. Also, want other fish along with a puffer. Do you have any advice on which ones are a definate "no" on the mix with a puffer?
 
Oh ok, cool your looking at the toby type puffers. I really love these guys actually. I used to have a Valentini but took down my tank for a while a few years ago and had to sell him. The other day I was just thinking about getting another one because he was one of the friendliest fish I have ever owned.

That Honeycomb Puffer sure is beautiful too! You do have to watch their teeth as well. I find these guys teeth grow really fast but as long as you feed hard shelled foods, they will stay short. I would also try to find one that is eating well and does not have a sunken belly. These guys have internal parasites relatively often. You can treat for them but its nice to get one without of course.

They certainly will not outgrow your tank but neither will a dogface or porcupine. Porcupine would be about the biggest puffer I would recommend for your tank. I find both porc and dogface seem to stay around 10". I think your pretty safe going with two of any of the puffers you have mentioned. I would be cautious with 2 of the tobies though...I have seen them fight. I also know someone who has 3 of them in a 90G too though, so it all depends on the individual fish.

For other tankmates, puffers get along well with most fish as long as the other fish leave them alone. I have never had a puffer attack another fish before. I find them very docile and gentle. I have though had one accidentally bite the face off a chromis once while going for the same piece of food, so I would be careful about smaller fish.

Maybe a smaller tank like a Kole? I really like them and they don't get too big. A dwarf lion is always nice. Again though, no small fish with a lion.

Do you have a canopy? If you do then a Snowflake eel would be great. Just make sure if you did this to have absolutely no openings for it to escape. A nice colorful Wrasse would be nice...again you need a canopy.

There really are so many options with that tank. If it were me, I would go with a Porc puffer, Valentini puffer, Kole Tang, Harlequin Tusk, and a Snowflake eel if you have a canopy, if not, maybe a Flame Angel?

The puffers will keep you and your kids entertained for hours!
 
Yeah, I am still very early in the deciding stages. I know at least one puffer. I also want at least one trigger also. I have never had one and always wanted one. I do not have a canopy; buut was still thinking of taking a gamble on an eel, you think that's a bad idea huh? I was also tihnking of an angel, but so many choices to know which one right now. you think that i would be good with this combo?
 
I would not risk an eel with no canopy. I would almost guarantee it will jump at some point. They seem to love to find a way out of tanks and with no canopy, its just too easy.

I have only ever had one trigger but he got too big for the tank I had and went back to the LFS. It was a Blue Throat Trigger. At the time I only had a 90G tank and he outgrew it very fast.

I don't know too much about Angels but I know you can certainly find an angel that will work fine with the puffers. I know for sure the smaller angels like Potters or Flames would be fine but I am not sure about larger ones. I think any of the big ones would be fine with a puffer but you just have to make sure you tank is big enough. Some of them get huge.
 
Angel options are pretty open, i would go with something that doesn't get too big thought because if your thinking eel, and the puffer and maybe a trigger too, if you put something like a French or annularis you may not be able to hold what you would like...If you want an angel i would go with something smaller posssibly flame, lemonpeel, something like that....there are alot of beautiful tangs outthere that would do fine in that szed tank too. take your time and choose wisely my friend!
 
thanks Justin for your advice. I just looked up the Harlequin, those are beautiful! I guess i will X the eel, unless I build a canopy. I htink a clown trigger. even though they are common, I have always liked them. If you don't mind, I will keep you updated with pics.
 
I am definately going to take my time. I was just kind of throwing ideas around with the angel. all I know for sure is the puffer, for my boys, and probably the clown trigger. I like Powder brown tangs as well, but I thought they might be too passive. Am I wrong on that? there are several tangs I like, if they can hang with the others, i will add at least one to the list. Thanks for the advice!!





<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12613546#post12613546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fish_King_25
Angel options are pretty open, i would go with something that doesn't get too big thought because if your thinking eel, and the puffer and maybe a trigger too, if you put something like a French or annularis you may not be able to hold what you would like...If you want an angel i would go with something smaller posssibly flame, lemonpeel, something like that....there are alot of beautiful tangs outthere that would do fine in that szed tank too. take your time and choose wisely my friend!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12613595#post12613595 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elecbzerk
thanks Justin for your advice. I just looked up the Harlequin, those are beautiful! I guess i will X the eel, unless I build a canopy. I htink a clown trigger. even though they are common, I have always liked them. If you don't mind, I will keep you updated with pics.

Yeah I would love to see pictures when you get the tank going. Especially of the puffers! Here is a pic of my two guys:

Digi086.jpg
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12613607#post12613607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elecbzerk
I am definately going to take my time. I was just kind of throwing ideas around with the angel. all I know for sure is the puffer, for my boys, and probably the clown trigger. I like Powder brown tangs as well, but I thought they might be too passive. Am I wrong on that? there are several tangs I like, if they can hang with the others, i will add at least one to the list. Thanks for the advice!!

The Powder Brown would be fine with the Puffer and Trigger. You just need to work out what kinds of tangs are compatible. I would pick the one tang you want for sure and then choose another based on what will get along with the one you really want. I kind of stock my tank that way...start with the fish I want the most and then add more based on compatibility with what I have.

Your on the right track with taking your time and Im sure you will end up with a beautiful tank!
 
I have a Porci puffer, Dog face puffer, Picasso trigger, Clown trigger, & a large sailfin tang - all have been together for about 4 years. It's quite a sight. I would recommend any of these fish.

As far as cleaning crew - good luck. I have managed to keep some hermits in the display, but nothing else. I moved to having a 10gal refugium with mud and LR.

If anyone has any ideas of cleaning crews for FOWLR aggressive tanks - please let me know!
 
Oh, I should have added: You need to be careful when having 2 triggers or 2 puffers in the same tank. Usually they will not like each other, depending on the individual fish and tank size.

Mine are in a 210gal with plenty of rock and hiding places. Plus they were all purchased very young and added at the same time.

I just wanted to note that before you did something like add 2 triggers and ended up with the "arena effect"
 
Thanks Justin. My boys loved the picture of your puffers. I will post pics of my progress as I get it going. I need to wait until my 75G is ready for inhabitants,(still cycling right now), so I can transfer the corals I want to keep from the 158G. I will sell the rest, and start preparing the tank "decor" for the FOWLR set up. Thanks again, your advice is always welcome.
 
Mike, thanks for the advice. If a cleaning crew is going to be tough, then how do you keep your tank clean? do you do fequent water changes? I have had several large chiclids in one tank, and the poo was difficult to manage. I don't know about having two triggers, I think just the Clown. I was thinking of a PB tang and a sohol tang. Think I will have a problem with thise two getting along? With those two puffers, how often do you feed? Would love to see pics of your tank....
 
If you like the "real" puffers, consider a dogface. They are fairly mellow, get up to about a foot long, which should be doable in your 158 gallon tank. Tobies are also very nice, they get no more than 4", and they can be very nippy. I personally prefer the look of the Arothron puffers, but in smaller tanks, I'll put a toby.

Another puffer I can recommend is the Southern puffer, but you don't see them in the pet stores much. Mine is small, but growing fast. They get about a foot long. Great personalities (from what I can tell so far).

Here's a pic from the web:
MVC-271Sa.jpg


What are the dimensions of your tank? Based on gallonage alone, if you have decent filtration and keep to routine maintenance, I think you could keep 3-5 decent sized fish (all reaching a maximum size of around 8-12"). Reading over previous posts, I see my advice is similar to that you got from justinpsmith. Guess great minds think alike! :)

I'd recommend:

Dogface puffer (check out the interesting color morphs too)

Australian harlequin tuskfish

Moderate sized trigger (picasso, or if you like mellower, Indian, blue jaw or sargassum)

One of the smaller tangs (mimic tang is my favorite, but kole tang or similar sized would be fine too)

You might be able to keep two dwarf angels in a tank this size, like a coral beauty and a flame (which would add some nice color). I had a royal gramma for a long time, and for three years kept it and a tomato clown with a HT, puffer, mimic tang, emperor angel and soapfish, and nothing ever bothered it.

You're going to have a lot of fun preparing and stocking your tank!

To your original question, I keep a few large hermits in my tank. They do fine as CUC, but I don't have much excess food, as everything in my tank is always ravenous.

Unless you love eels, I'd save your bioload for fish. I have an open topped canopy, and my zebra moray and Brazilian dragon moray have never wandered. However, the two snowflake eels I have had in my life each got out of what I thought were securely covered tanks and died on the floor.
 
The 210gal display tank has a deep sand bed of about 4-6 inches w/ about 150-175lbs of live rock. 2 large canister filters & 2 filter socks in the 55gal sump. The 10gal refugium has Miracle Mud and "reef rubble" The sand has alot of bristle worms and other life the fish hunt for.

I clean the glass about every other day, checking the protein skimmer. Rinse the filter socks about once a week, depends.
I change about 45-50gal of water every 2 months or so, removing detrius from the sand surface and rock. All make-up water is RO/DI.

The tang and triggers eat twice a day, flake and various pellets (Ocean Nutrition-Formula 1&2 are their favs). The puffers eat about 3-4 times a week. Usually chopped up krill, shrimp, prawn, squid, silver sides, clams, etc. All soaked in vitamin supp. The triggers also get some of this. They are messy eaters.

Recently I added "Reef Bugs" to my refugium. They are AMAZING!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+18508&pcatid=18508

I know they probably are not meant for FOWLR, but I think they may act as a type of "cleaning crew" Does anyone else have thoughts on this? One tablespoon has populated my entire tank with organisms.

As far as the tangs, I would get only 1.

I don't have pics with me, but will post them soon. Thanks for the interest.
 
I don't know about having two triggers, I think just the Clown. I was thinking of a PB tang and a sohol tang.

I wouldn't recommend any of these for your 158 gallon tank. I think size and aggression will be issues with the clown trigger and sohal tang, and the PBT may be tough to keep. With PBT, survivability is not all that high. It may do better in a reef.
 
Thanks Lisa, I have read some of your posts, and your experience is obviously extensive. I saw on another post you mentioned two types of porc puffers. where can I research them? Again, thanks so much, you too have given me alot to think of!





<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12615634#post12615634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
I wouldn't recommend any of these for your 158 gallon tank. I think size and aggression will be issues with the clown trigger and sohal tang, and the PBT may be tough to keep. With PBT, survivability is not all that high. It may do better in a reef.
 
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