158g Fowlr

[elecbzerk]

Lisa, that southern puffer is really cool! Everyone has given me so much to think on. I thought before this thread that a dogface or porcupine would quickly outgrow my tank. Also, from this thread and other threads in this forum, I think the clown trigger is going to be hard to find other tankmates that get along with it. hopefully if I get them all at very small sizes, this will minimize that, am I correct? Also, pics of everyone's tanks would be very cool.

 

[LisaD]

Thanks for the nice words, elecbzerk.

www.wetwebmedia.com is an excellent source of reliable species information. I like all Scott Michael's books, too. Also search by species or group of interest on Reefkeeping online magazine, associated with this site, and advanced aquarist online magazine.

Personally, I would not get the clown trigger. There are other really nice triggers that you can keep as adults in a tank like yours, that have less chance of eventually killing tankmates. I had a small (less than 3") clown trigger that attacked and killed everything I had, except for an even more aggressive eel. I have not been tempted to keep one again in a tank with other fish, even though they are so beautiful. I would consider having one again if I had a larger tank than my 210, and was willing to devote pretty much the whole tank to the trigger. If you read up on the triggers, there are quite a few that are really colorful, moderate sized and outgoing, and less likely to be so aggressive. Most of the Rhinecanthus triggers fit the bill. Take a look at the Assasi - it is a bit more expensive and rare than a picasso, but very cool looking.

A dogface should do fine in your tank as an adult, but a porc would be pushing it, IMO. There is a nice burrfish that stays about 10". I don't have experience keeping that species, so I don't know how difficult it is.

There are some hobbyists that successfully push the envelope on tankmates, like danorth. However, since you are starting out, and since you have kids that may get attached to the fish, I'd go with safer choices to start. If you get as addicted to this hobby and the fish as many of us are, you'll have more tanks soon for your nastier choices. BTW, if you decide you want a single, beautiful trigger, consider an undulate in a species only tank. I think a 75 is about right, but others say a 55 will do for a long time...

The southern puffer was in my LFS as a "long nosed puffer". It's similar to the puffers I used to fish for on the bay side of long each island in NJ when I was a little kid (I think they were probably northern puffers). If you want one, I'd contact a Florida collector like divertom.com or reeftopia.com and see if they'd catch you one. make sure they know it's not a valentini puffer. My southern puffer makes a nest in the sand to sleep in at night, but swims around a lot during the day.

 

[LisaD]

I know my list of "favorite fish" is getting redundant, because I'm pretty much keeping all my favorite fish. So, here's another suggestion:

Your sons might enjoy a green wolf eel blenny. This is a good eel substitute, and stays reasonable sized. Unlikely to wander, really ugly-cute. They get about 18" and are a bizarre type of dottyback. Mine loves to eat, but doesn't bother the other fish. Here's a good article with nice pics.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-04/fm/feature/index.php

Another great choice as a possible substitute, or in addition to, a tang, would be a foxface lo. These have venomous spines (many marine fish do) but as long as your sons stay out of the tank and you are careful, you shouldn't have any problem. They are colorful, hardy, have great personalities, and aren't too expensive. I have a blue spotted rabbitfish, a relative, which is also really nice.

another Reefkeeping article:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/hcs3/index.php

I'd recommend you go to fish stores and public aquaria and take note of which fish you keep staring at. Check their size/compatibility with your tank and puffer(s). If you can get that kind of fish, go for it. If not, get a similar type that fits with your tank and fish choices.

 

[elecbzerk]

Thanks again Lisa. you have given me plenty to research and consider. thie feedback I am receiving in this thread is exactly what I am looking for. I am quite sure I will post a million questions on this thread. I have been negleting to say that the set-up i am buying has a large CB Butterfly. I don't know if I will keep it, probably trade it to a LFS.

 

[LisaD]

This is a great forum. I've gotten a lot of support and good feedback over the years, so I try to give back when I have a little time. I'm working on getting a new tank set up, so I'm around doing a leak check as it slooowwly fills with filtered water.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12615875#post12615875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
A dogface should do fine in your tank as an adult, but a porc would be pushing it, IMO. There is a nice burrfish that stays about 10". I don't have experience keeping that species, so I don't know how difficult it is.

If he finds a Diodon holacanthus which I find more common than species like Diodon liturosus or Diodon Hystrix, he should be fine. Hystrix is a disaster if you accidentally get one of these guys. They end up around 3 feet! Even Diodon liturosus get too big at about 26". Diodon liturosus are pretty easy to ID because they have very distinct large, dark "blotches" on their head and body. Diodon holacanthus does get pretty big in the ocean but its rare to see them get much bigger than 10" to a foot in aquariums. Even in my brothers 600G tank, both his Diodon holacanthus are about 11" I think. One is 6 years old and the other is about 5. But I guess a Porc could be pushing it...depends on what else is in there maybe.

This info was of course not for you though Lisa...I know you already know all this

I just picked up my first Lined Burrfish just over a week ago. Can't tell you much about how hard it will be to keep but so far pretty happy little fish. Eats very well and has pretty much the exact same personality as a Porc. Just really funny looking!

 

[wickedfish]

The only cleanin crew are big zebra snails. I have tangs in my aggressive tanks and do fine with my triggers and lion. Keep the tang clean from bad algae. Tangs, they work. i have Scopas Tang Achilles Tang and cole tang. Tank looks so clean.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12617864#post12617864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wickedfish
The only cleanin crew are big zebra snails. I have tangs in my aggressive tanks and do fine with my triggers and lion. Keep the tang clean from bad algae. Tangs, they work. i have Scopas Tang Achilles Tang and cole tang. Tank looks so clean.

Wow thats a lot of big tangs. Hope you have a big tank for them.

 

[elecbzerk]

Thanks again Justin. I will look up those scientific names. I was actually considering a burrfish, or spiny box puffer too. I think my boys would really like the porc or dogface. Seems like Lisa's opinion leans more toward the dogface, and you seem to prefer the dogface. so many choices....but this is sooo much fun!!!! Thanks again Justin! I get the new tank set-up on Friday, I will post pics so you can see a "before"shot.

 

[elecbzerk]

Lisa, the dimensions of the tank are: 60" X 24" X 25". and the wet dry is 48" X 12". I had that info earlier, but neglected to post it.

[
What are the dimensions of your tank? Based on gallonage alone, if you have decent filtration and keep to routine maintenance, I think you could keep 3-5 decent sized fish (all reaching a maximum size of around 8-12").

 

[elecbzerk]

Justin, I don't really have much of an asian market in San Antonio, any other suggestions?





[/QUOTE]
The other thing with puffers (or any fish really) is to make sure you feed them a varied diet. I go to a local asian market and pick up bags of mixed sea food including squid, clams, mussels, ect. as well as grabbing a bunch of fresh prawns, mussels, manila clams, squid, ect. Make sure you freeze all these foods before you feed them. Then just rethaw in vitamins and you will have healthy, happy puffers. [/QUOTE]

 

[elecbzerk]

Thanks for the advice. I will have to get some and see how it works. I think this FOWLR will be a work in progress for me.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12617864#post12617864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wickedfish
The only cleanin crew are big zebra snails. I have tangs in my aggressive tanks and do fine with my triggers and lion. Keep the tang clean from bad algae. Tangs, they work. i have Scopas Tang Achilles Tang and cole tang. Tank looks so clean.

 

[LisaD]

nice tank. I have a similar one, closer to 120, which is 60" x 18" x 25" tall. having 5' length for swimming makes a big difference over a 4' tank. I don't prefer a dogface puffer over the porc, I just have more experience with dogfaces. I have avoided the porcs in the past because they get so big, and don't know much about the smaller burrfish.

If he finds a Diodon holacanthus which I find more common than species like Diodon liturosus or Diodon Hystrix, he should be fine.

I've recently seen a large porc, maybe 10" at my LFS. It was massive! I think it would be okay in the the 158 tank with a dogface, but he might have to limit the other fish to 1 or 2.

I do know that dogfaces are very hardy if they get proper nutrition, keep their teeth worn down, and if nitrates are low.

 

[elecbzerk]

I think one puffer will be fine for my tank. Just a matter of deciding which one. guess that is the fun part. I posted the dimensions in part to ask about a fish load. do you still think only 3-5?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12618383#post12618383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
nice tank. I have a similar one, closer to 120, which is 60" x 18" x 25" tall. having 5' length for swimming makes a big difference over a 4' tank. I don't prefer a dogface puffer over the porc, I just have more experience with dogfaces. I have avoided the porcs in the past because they get so big, and don't know much about the smaller burrfish.



I've recently seen a large porc, maybe 10" at my LFS. It was massive! I think it would be okay in the the 158 tank with a dogface, but he might have to limit the other fish to 1 or 2.

I do know that dogfaces are very hardy if they get proper nutrition, keep their teeth worn down, and if nitrates are low.

 

[LisaD]

If you choose bigger fish, getting around 12" or so on average, I'd still say yes. If you have more than one that is over 12", I'd limit it to 3-4. If you have all at or below 12", I'd say maybe up to 5. It never hurts to stock relatively lightly at first, as you get started.

If it were my tank, I'd stock with these:

dogface or porcupine puffer (13-16")
Australian harlequin tuskfish (stays ~10")
mimic tang or foxface (stay 8-10")
large angel (I like emperors, though they get large, about 16")

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12618452#post12618452 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elecbzerk
I think one puffer will be fine for my tank. Just a matter of deciding which one. guess that is the fun part. I posted the dimensions in part to ask about a fish load. do you still think only 3-5?

If you do keep just one puffer, you can go with more fish. It really depends on the fish though. I usually consider puffers to be the equivalent of 3 or 4 medium sized fish when it reaches adult...they just simply eat that much!

Personally, I have really pushed it with puffers in the past and kept 4 together at once with a Snowflake eel a 180G. There was a Dogface, Porcupine, Green Spotted Puffer and Valentini. So two big and two small. I had this set up for about 3 years and it was great. There would have been no way I could have had any other fish though.

So it really does start with how many puffers you want. If you stick to one, you have many options for tankmates and number of tankmates. If you go with two, I would say just another 2-3 medium sized fish max.

Eels by the way are even heavier eaters than puffers in my opinion. My snowflake got to be about 2' and would eat 4 whole prawns 3 times a week. He used to swallow the prawns whole. He would have probably eaten even more if I let him!

 

[JustinReef]

I think I was writing at the same time as Lisa...we pretty much were saying the same thing I think but Lisa just said it a bit better!

I really like her stock list BTW.

 

[LisaD]

Thanks, justin I've been known to push the stocking beyond what I recommended, but I have over 30 years experience keeping saltwater, and pretty much know what I can get by with (and I still make mistakes).

elecbzerk, I think as you are starting out, stay with hardy fish you really like, stock reasonably light, then see how it goes. if you buy fish as juveniles that get really big, your tank will look empty for a while. don't worry, it won't last long as they grow up. and you always have the option of adding another fish later (like a smaller trigger, which should probably be added last, anyway).

But do choose your fish carefully. I have a huge zebra moray I don't really want, but I've had it such a long time, it has sentimental value. I'm also having second thoughts about the real estate my black tipped grouper takes up and if it will attack small fish, but it is a cool fish that I've grown up from a little guy. I get attached to my fish, and when I discover there is another I may want more for the space I have, it is hard to 1) let the existing ones go, 2) catch them without taking the tank apart, and 3) find someone to take them.

I wouldn't buy any fish you weren't drooling over. Since you like the bigger ones with personality, you will be limited in the numbers you can keep, even though you have a good sized tank.

I thought of a few more of my absolute favorite fish. I had these in a 125 that was set up in MN before I moved to NC in 1994:

-Cuban hog fish - great personality
-White spotted file fish (poor man's clown trigger) - a GREAT fish I used to have, would love to find another)

 

[JustinReef]

I think number 3 is the hardest part. I get really attached to my fish as well and when I have had to give them up I find it very hard to find them a new home that I approve of!

I push my stocking as well and am usually a little overstocked Just not something I would recommend if someone is setting up a first tank of course.

I do not have nearly as much experience as you but I have kept Saltwater fish for 6 years, freshwater since I can remember and I was very into brackish water tanks for about 11 years. I actually miss the brackish tanks so much. I think having tried all three now, brackish really are my favs. Mudskippers, Monos, Archers, Green Spotted Puffers, Scats, Mollies that breed almost daily it seems...LOL.

Sorry WAY off topic.

 

[elecbzerk]

Big thanks to both Justin and Lisa!! great advice and direction. After going around on this thread, I do plan to get my fish very small so I can watch them grow over time. I very much want the trigger, but if I do add one to the community, it will probably be the last in line of what I decide to bring home. My thought process is he will be the smallest and newest, and that may somehow set his aggressive tendacies. I know either or both of you will tell if this is incorrect. One thing I have learned with this hobby so far is it takes alot of patience; and research. but that is the fun part to me. I have plenty of time before I am ready to make decisions, and I will post them all here, with pics too. Again, thanks sooooo much for the wonderful advice and conversation, nice to know someone is there to help when needed!!!