Please do not yell at me. I am on week 7-8 now of my upgraded tank. all my levels have been very good. am-o nitrite0 nitrate was at 20 but over the last few weeks got it down to 5-10. now we have a huge amonia spike and nitrates are high. we have not added anything, weekly water changes, and skimming. what gives?? nothing has died ??
????
- Thread starter Cruella
- Start date
Rainer Feyer
Premium Member
Cruella,
I don't think any of us would yell at you - sometumes the best advise may not be what you want to hear, though.
Regarding your new spike of Nitrate and Ammonia:
Have you changed test kits?
Are you sure nothing has died?
Is it possible that a family member has drastically overfeed? Such as a child saying: "Uhh, you're gonna get all the food you want"
When you say you have an ammonia spike, what does that mean in numbers?
Rainer
I don't think any of us would yell at you - sometumes the best advise may not be what you want to hear, though.
Regarding your new spike of Nitrate and Ammonia:
Have you changed test kits?
Are you sure nothing has died?
Is it possible that a family member has drastically overfeed? Such as a child saying: "Uhh, you're gonna get all the food you want"
When you say you have an ammonia spike, what does that mean in numbers?
Rainer
kpcollins31
New member
Seems unusual - You may want to try a different test kit to confirm the results. If you do not have one available, I would do a 10% water change and test again. If the ammonia is still high, you may want to add a teaspoon of Amquel (or some other detoxifier). That would eliminate the ammonia temporarily - continue doing daily water changes (say 5%) until the problem goes away. For the water changes, make sure you are using RODI water that has been brought up to the right temperature and has been thoroughly mixed with a powerhead or something at least overnight. Once you get the ammonia to non-detectable levels, then you can back off to your weekly routine.
Kevin
Kevin
I haven't over feed them. and my son can't reach the tank. the only thing that has passed in a few weeks. . the test kit we have is called "saltwater master liguid test kit. we were up to 4 am . I did a 20 gallon water change still it has only got the amonia:0-.25 and nitrate is still at 20
The "saltwater master liquid test kit" sounds familiar. I'm pretty sure that was the first kit that I bought, got it from petsmart or petco. I was getting .25-.5 ammonia readings anytime I used it. Since all livestock seemed fine I got a salifert test and had a 0 ammonia reading. If it's the kit that has reagent A,B,&C I would try a different test kit or bring a water sample to Eddie's and ask them to test.
I think it is your test kit.
If you had an ammonia spike for several days, your fish would show some signs of stress.
Get salifert tests- they are easy to use AND interpret.
Nitrate, carbonate hardness, pH (which is usually fine with other test kits), maybe calcium (though if you suppliment calcium and carbonate equally- you shouldn't need it. I rarely test for it- just carbonate) and phosphate (though IMO algae is the best measure for this...
The idea of taking a sample to Eddies or other store and having them do an initial test is a good one. have them do the ammonia and nitrite- usually the ONLY time those need to be checked is during the cycle- and it takes something VERY serious to throw it off. Even snails dying or a fish, get consumed by something in short order and never sit decaying long enough to cause ammonia to build up.
Your tang would surely be telling you if water was bad.
Another source to check when things are funky- your makeup water.
If you had an ammonia spike for several days, your fish would show some signs of stress.
Get salifert tests- they are easy to use AND interpret.
Nitrate, carbonate hardness, pH (which is usually fine with other test kits), maybe calcium (though if you suppliment calcium and carbonate equally- you shouldn't need it. I rarely test for it- just carbonate) and phosphate (though IMO algae is the best measure for this...
The idea of taking a sample to Eddies or other store and having them do an initial test is a good one. have them do the ammonia and nitrite- usually the ONLY time those need to be checked is during the cycle- and it takes something VERY serious to throw it off. Even snails dying or a fish, get consumed by something in short order and never sit decaying long enough to cause ammonia to build up.
Your tang would surely be telling you if water was bad.
Another source to check when things are funky- your makeup water.
I took my water to get tested last night at a local pet store. my readings came back as .25 of amonia no nitrite of nitrates. funny since my kept saying my nitrates were in the 20's. so far I have done about a 30 gallon water change of the last 3 days. I am going to give my tank a rest for a few days. I put some amquell in it so in a day or two I will do another water change. I have my skimmer going and the color is this gross green color. yuck but everyone looks fine. eating swimming around, the corals still look great?? I am a forensic major and my job is to solve crime with finding information. yet this is hobby is harder then doing DNA samples.
reefD
New member
things would be simple if you would just let your tank cycle. this would require you to remove all stock execpt damsels ( if you dont want to chance killing them) and letting the ammonia spike raise and fall on its own. do no water changes until ammonia goes completely away and stays that way for 4 weeks. this will ensure a good bacteria bloom and any new stock (if adding slowly and spaced out by weeks to even months) will trigger the bacteria to grow, not get over whelmed by too much ammonia , cause your supposed to go slow,and naturally repopulate to compensate the new bio load. its simple once you get this accomplished. but until you do you are usning cover up methods to treat the ammonia spike and they will never solve the problem. ammonia spike never never happens in salt unless you add too much stock too fast and this leads to a recycle. or if you kill the good bacteria and cause a recycle. the theme here is recycle which is what you are experienceing so let it happen.
the reason nothing has died is cause you keep releavung the ammonia with water changes but the ammonia will keep rising until you allow bacteria to feed on it. if not you will be the form of bacteria (by doing water changes constantly)thus you will be doing water changes constantly to keep up with the ammonia. i THINK the natural bacteria way is better. lol
the reason nothing has died is cause you keep releavung the ammonia with water changes but the ammonia will keep rising until you allow bacteria to feed on it. if not you will be the form of bacteria (by doing water changes constantly)thus you will be doing water changes constantly to keep up with the ammonia. i THINK the natural bacteria way is better. lol
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I second getting Salifert: it's expensive to rig out with new test kits, but so is livestock, which you can lose if you correct in a wrong direction because your test screwed up.
Salifert tests don't depend on subjective color judgements: the color changes happen suddenly and profoundly. You stop dropping stuff in the vial at that point and just look at the plain number on your dropper/syringe, nothing subjective about it. It's just a number, which you can write down in a book and compare against an acceptable range, and decide for yourself whether 8 is enough or you'd rather be, say, at 9, in an acceptable range of 8-11. You can decide which of two readings to 'correct' for the day, when you can't correct, say, low calcium and low alkalinity at the same time. If your alk is 8 and your cal is 340 (s/b 400), you can say: "I'd better fix the calcium today, and drop in some buffer (alk) tomorrow," rather than being told "It's an 'acceptable' level...' With that, you're shooting in the dark, rather than making informed judgements. Just my personal preference, but it would be my best advice. You can, IMHO, have a better chance to steer this tank through its problems if you have more precise information about what's going on with the chemistry, and a more exact knowledge of what you can correct, and when---eg, knowing that you don't correct alk and cal at the same time (the result would be a small snowstorm in the tank, doing neither reading any good: best rule is correct one thing in any 24 hour period.) Hope that helps.
Salifert tests don't depend on subjective color judgements: the color changes happen suddenly and profoundly. You stop dropping stuff in the vial at that point and just look at the plain number on your dropper/syringe, nothing subjective about it. It's just a number, which you can write down in a book and compare against an acceptable range, and decide for yourself whether 8 is enough or you'd rather be, say, at 9, in an acceptable range of 8-11. You can decide which of two readings to 'correct' for the day, when you can't correct, say, low calcium and low alkalinity at the same time. If your alk is 8 and your cal is 340 (s/b 400), you can say: "I'd better fix the calcium today, and drop in some buffer (alk) tomorrow," rather than being told "It's an 'acceptable' level...' With that, you're shooting in the dark, rather than making informed judgements. Just my personal preference, but it would be my best advice. You can, IMHO, have a better chance to steer this tank through its problems if you have more precise information about what's going on with the chemistry, and a more exact knowledge of what you can correct, and when---eg, knowing that you don't correct alk and cal at the same time (the result would be a small snowstorm in the tank, doing neither reading any good: best rule is correct one thing in any 24 hour period.) Hope that helps.
reefD
New member
ok better advice is that your on your way out of this. let the ammonia spike. keeep doing monor water changes. keep a good eye on ammonia. in any event feed every other day from this point on. use prime for morning spikes followed by pm water change. never more than 20%! keep this schedule and add nothing! no snails no hermits and monitor ph for swings. start using a buffer now. (look it up) dose it accordingly. ph night swings will be a bad enemy in a new tank. the spike is norml. keep the water changes minor! and it will eventually establish bacteria. just dont change anything now. water parameters are most likly on. fish are happy not a luck draw, parameters are acceptable for them so keep it stable. and be constant on your schedule. i wish you the best of luck and hope this all helps. just stay head strong and this willpast!
David- is it possible the the addition of Amquel is causing the cycle to go funny? It just occured to me now. I never use the stuff except in a true emergency when I have had to resort to using tap water to make up new water. Was for chlorine removal rather than ammonia reduction.
reefD
New member
very possible but you would have to be using it often to interupt the cycle. like maybe a few times a week. in anycase if you use enough it would inhibit the natural proccess. but again you would have to use it often. i have heard of some people using stuff like that for preventing an aged system from crashing when it is detected by early ammonia levels that are not eleveated by minor water changes. the issue become that they end you having to use these chemicals all the time and it gets expensive. what most eventually do is get some good seeded rock/sand from a friend well established tank. adding a bit (LR/LS/etc) every week can eventually swing the penjalum in your favor.
xian
Premium Member
Cruella there's a heck of a lot more unaccounted variables here. Heck the experts don't even know anything
Jjst remember ammonia comes from two sources excreted waste and decay.
Let us know what comes up. Also you could try running activated carbon. I use the Biochem-sorb pillows for anomalies.
Jjst remember ammonia comes from two sources excreted waste and decay.
Let us know what comes up. Also you could try running activated carbon. I use the Biochem-sorb pillows for anomalies.
