180g LPS Reef - Need Advice on Equipment

[LPS_Blasto]

I just purchased a new 180g reef ready tank. I'm planning to build a mostly LPS dominant reef tank.

I also plan to have a 20-30g display refugium above the tank, maybe on the side of the cabinet, but definitely above the tank so it can drain down and wash pods into the tank without subjecting them to a trip through my return pump. It will need to be drilled and a bulkhead installed. I'm already collecting parts for that.

I'm leaning towards low flow and T5HO or LED lights in the main display tank. Looking for suggestions on LED lighting. I know nothing about LED's. I have a couple older 60w LED's and they are for fish tanks. 10k and 14k diodes inside.


I could go with (2) of the 3-foot T5HO 39w fixtures to cover the full length. But even with 6 bulbs per fixture (12x39w = 468w) would give me only 2.6w per gallon. Need more light.

I'm more comfortable with a DIY sump vs a factory made design. I've been looking at the new sumps on the market. Most are building a refugium into the sump. I don't want that. As I said earlier, I'm planning to put my refugium ABOVE the tank. I'm not sure what size tank to use if I DIY with the sump. I have a 30L, but I don't think that's big enough for draindown when the power is cut. I'm afraid it will overflow. Would a 40g or 55g be sufficient?

How would you drain the tank? It has dual corner overflows. Each overflow is drilled with 2 holes. I'm not at all interested in using the durso drains that come from the factory. Would it be safe enough to use (2) Herbie style drains? Should I install a Herbie drain on the one side and a dry overflow on the other side? If so - how do you baffle the weir to raise the water level on that side?

What skimmer would you get? I have a Reef Octopus 150. Will that work? Yes it will fit in the sump. I'll make sure of it.

Return pump? As I said, I'm leaning towards lower flow through my sump. I like dwell time. My brain is saying 700-900GPH after head loss is fine. Thats 4x--5x the tank per hour. I don't want my sump to look like a cruise ship is throttling up to leave port -- i.e. I don't want it turbulent and full of bubbles so I'll be spacing my baffles quite a few inches apart.

 

[mattgumaer]

Hi,

In terms of lights, I would not rule out running either a 6-8 bulb 5 foot t5 fixture, or, if you have a canopy or some way to minimize the visual impact of doing it, a staggered 8 bulb 4 foot t5 setup, so that every other light starts at one side of the tank, minimizing any dark spots. Buying tons of 3 foot bulbs is going to get expensive (4 and 5 foot bulbs are only a couple of bucks more than 3 foot bulbs).

For LEDs, there are the usual suspects. Kessils, Ecotech Radions, AI, Maxspect, 'black box' lights, etc.. In order to help you pick one, folks will probably need to know more about your budget and priorities (evenness of spread, how much control you want, ease of use, etc.).

FWIW, on my 180, I rune 3 gen 2 Ecotech Radion Pros, with the new light diffusers, plus 4 5-foot t5 bulbs. I use the Radions for sunrise ramp up and sunset ramp down and to change the color temp for dawn and dusk (bluer in early in the morning and later at night) and use the t5s for the bulk of my mid-day light. I started with the 3 Radions alone which was fine for LPS and more basic SPS (montis, birdsnests, Poccis, etc.) but never had much luck with acros with just the Radions. Adding the t5s definitely helped my ability to keep acros. So, for an LPS tank, three Radions would be great, depending on your budget and preferences. The Radions have nearly limitless control but, some might argue its too much of a good thing.

I can't speak to the drains as I use the stock dursos on my RR 180 tank but, my tank is built into to a closet/room so, noise isn't a big issue for me. If you want to use all four holes for drains, I might try sort of a modified bean animal with with two full siphon lines, one in each overflow, a trickle line in one overflow and a dry line in the other. This would help insure some good flow through both overflows and would have the added safety factor of a dry emergency drain. If you want to use 3 holes for drains, things get trickier. Maybe a full siphon plus emergency dry pipe on one side and a trickle and return on the other? Just speculation on my part but, I think this would work and give you flow through both overflows.

Matt

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Hi,

In terms of lights, I would not rule out running either a 6-8 bulb 5 foot t5 fixture, or, if you have a canopy or some way to minimize the visual impact of doing it, a staggered 8 bulb 4 foot t5 setup, so that every other light starts at one side of the tank, minimizing any dark spots. Buying tons of 3 foot bulbs is going to get expensive (4 and 5 foot bulbs are only a couple of bucks more than 3 foot bulbs).

I don't know why the heck I didn't think of 5ft T5 tubes. Thanks for the reminder!!

For LEDs, there are the usual suspects. Kessils, Ecotech Radions, AI, Maxspect, 'black box' lights, etc..

LED's were VERY new the last time I had a reef tank. I know next to nothing about them. Like, how many watts would I need? Can you select a color? Or are they fixed by the manufacturer and you take what you get (their color selection)?

In order to help you pick one, folks will probably need to know more about your budget and priorities (evenness of spread, how much control you want, ease of use, etc.).

For lighting, I was hoping to get by with about $500-$700
My priority is growth and color on LPS corals.
I can have a few shaded spots or darker spots on the ends. That's okay with me.
I would "like" controllers or remote controls that have built in timers.. but not absolutely necessary.

I can tell you the ATI units seem ridiculously overpriced to me. There's nothing special about a T5HO ballast or a shiny paint job on the outside. That's the kind of purchases I AVOID at all costs.
That goes for Kessil products as well. The H80 is about $230--$260 depending on where you look. That's INSANE for a $25 driver and $8 worth of diodes.

FWIW, on my 180, I rune 3 gen 2 Ecotech Radion Pros, with the new light diffusers, plus 4 5-foot t5 bulbs. I use the Radions for sunrise ramp up and sunset ramp down and to change the color temp for dawn and dusk (bluer in early in the morning and later at night) and use the t5s for the bulk of my mid-day light. I started with the 3 Radions alone which was fine for LPS and more basic SPS (montis, birdsnests, Poccis, etc.) but never had much luck with acros with just the Radions. Adding the t5s definitely helped my ability to keep acros. So, for an LPS tank, three Radions would be great, depending on your budget and preferences. The Radions have nearly limitless control but, some might argue its too much of a good thing.

THAT is really good information. Thanks for posting your current equipment. :thumbsup:

I can't speak to the drains as I use the stock dursos on my RR 180 tank but, my tank is built into to a closet/room so, noise isn't a big issue for me. If you want to use all four holes for drains, I might try sort of a modified bean animal with with two full siphon lines, one in each overflow, a trickle line in one overflow and a dry line in the other. This would help insure some good flow through both overflows and would have the added safety factor of a dry emergency drain. If you want to use 3 holes for drains, things get trickier. Maybe a full siphon plus emergency dry pipe on one side and a trickle and return on the other? Just speculation on my part but, I think this would work and give you flow through both overflows.

Matt

I thought about using a Herbie on one side,with a wet overflow pipe--- and a dry overflow on the other side, but I dunno how to raise the weir height to block that one off another 1/4" or 3/8" higher.

So Herbie on one side takes those 2 holes. I got 2 holes left on the other overflow. Run a dry overflow pipe and use the last hole as a return line with some line-loc fittings.

I think I can get all the flow I want/need out of 1 drain pipe. 600GPH is more than 3x turnover for the tank.

Would that be stupid or risky? I'd rather run a completely dry overflow with TWO dry stand pipes vs put myself into a risky flood situation.

 

[mattgumaer]

Given the budget, I'd stick with T5s. I think they're easier to be successful with but, lack all the fancy control of high end LEDs. With high end LEDs, I think you're mostly paying for a ton of control, including the software. Like I said, with my tank, I start with dim blue in in the morning with color temperature becoming more neutral with more intensity until mid afternoon, then things ramp slowly back down, turning more blue again in the evening. Is any of this necessary? No. Do the corals care? No. But, I like it....... In my view, if you go with budget LEDs, you're likely giving up the amount and ease of control, which may be the primary reason to go with LEDs over t5s in the first place (that and no bulb changes and less heat).

I'm no plumbing expert, not by a long shot. But, my 'gut' tells me that trying to run an overflow dry with an emergency and a return will be harder than it looks. Even if you raise the weir height on one side a little, you've got the potential for some wave action coming over the top and/or the water in the tank height rising a little if the teeth on your other functional overflow start to accumulate some gunk.

Ultimately, if I were going to do anything other than the standard dursos in a RR duel overflow tank, for me, the choice would probably be between: 1) removing the overflows, sealing the holes and buying one of the long, low profile overflows set up for a bean animal with holes drilled in the back of the tank; or 2) drilling the back for a return or two, and using the four holes in the overflows as follows: overflow #1, one siphon line and a trickle line; overflow #2, one siphon line and an emergency. But, again, I'm no expert at all. I've set up a grand total of two tanks with overflows, one using the standard dursos on a RR 180 and a 60 gallon cube I drilled for a return and a Reef Savvy ghost overflow. I will say that drilling was pretty easy and straight forward. Having done it once, I would not hesitate to drill another tank at all.

Matt

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Hey thanks again Matt. Great input.

The LFS told me to run dual Herbies and assured me that was pretty safe.

I can't drill the glass. It's all tempered, except the end pieces. It's a new Marineland 180g RR ($1,400).

I'm going to buy Mars Aqua (black box) lights on Amazon. People in Colorado use the Mars Hydro for "gardening" and they work fine. I've seen the results (but never tasted - not my thing). Mars Aqua is the same company.

 

[mattgumaer]

Hey thanks again Matt. Great input.

The LFS told me to run dual Herbies and assured me that was pretty safe. I'm sure they're correct. I assuming you're bringing your return over the top.

I can't drill the glass. It's all tempered, except the end pieces. It's a new Marineland 180g RR ($1,400). Yikes, my LFS must have given me an awesome deal on mine. I think they charged me somewhere between 600 and 700 bucks (I'm sure they were counting on me to come back to buy things to fill the tank and they were correct).

I'm going to buy Mars Aqua (black box) lights on Amazon. People in Colorado use the Mars Hydro for "gardening" and they work fine. I've seen the results (but never tasted - not my thing). Mars Aqua is the same company.

You may already have made up your mind but, it may be worth watching the Bulk Reef Supply investigates video on black box lights. I would encourage you to borrow a par meter if at all possible when setting up the lights. You'd be amazed at how different par numbers can be from one spot to another when there is little to no visual difference in light intensity. I would also mount them as high as practical over the tank to maximize light spread/distribution.

Good luck.

Matt