180g planted tank

[Triterium]

Im setting up a 180 gallon planted tank in my greenhouse. The majority of the space will be for seagrasses and macroalgaes. There will also be a refugium with 200+ mangroves. Ive never done anything like this so was hoping to discuss it here and maybe avoid some mistakes.

Here is the display several hours after adding the sand.

Some of the corals, but who cares about those

Ulva which really likes this anemone

Scary lair. Dont put your hand in there!

GBTA with some sort of fish (ID please?)

An interesting fish I couldn't pass up buying.

I know what you're thinking...Where are all the plants and algaes!!!??? They are on the way. If you don't think you can wait, look here... This is where I go when im feeling anxiety
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=490

 

[Samala]

That is some serious popeye infection on that cardinal.... Would you mind sending me some tail tissue so I can extract DNA from it? I've never seen a mutant blue eyed fish before.. would like to look at the genes responsible.

"Some of the corals, but who cares about those".. Lol..

We sadly have no reputable med schools in Delaware, unless you count holistic medicine. The nursing college at my University is quite good. Want to wear colored scrubs instead of the white lab coat? Nearby Philly is full of fun medical places, like Crozer Chester and the Fox Chase Cancer Center, UPenn's med and vet school (and the large animal hospital, might be cool for that marine mammal interest). Lots of hospitals like Jefferson. And let us not forget my favorite, CHOP! (Children's hospital of philadelphia - what an acronym!)

>Sarah

 

[Samala]

Hey Triterium, I was thinking this morning about the possible light issue. It does seem silly to need to supplement the sun... but are you sure you're getting a lot of light through the greenhouse? Maybe you need to clean the glass panels? Just a thought. Course, if the anemones are doing fine, then the macroalgae should be good.. hmmm. Y'know it may just be because you dont have a lot of plant life in the tank right now. So, as a whole, they cant grow fast enough to keep pest algaes out. If its not light, it may be plant density. Once you have the algaes and grasses come in hopefully you'll see the hair algae recede.

Last thought - be careful with the Jobes sticks that they dont contain chlorine/copper.. and I believe the version sold for green house plants, not flowering plants, is more in line with the proper NPK ratios needed by aquatic plants. Thats the one most suggested in the freshwater circles. Course, Pondtabbs are also suggested and still used - might be able to find them in a home depot water garden section. I've never used them though... check the labels.

>Sarah (off to take my last midterm before break! yes!!)

 

[Triterium]

I did clean the panels and im sure there is more than enough light. A LFS is ordering me a ton of seagrasses today. I should hopefully get several hundred plants. They are also ordering me a bunch of mangroves that i'll be adding to the system.

I originally bought some pond fertilizer tabs, but they had copper. I went to home depot and bought the Jobes for flowering plants. The NPK ratio is 10-10-4. Maybe too high in phosphorus. I'll look for the other one before i plant the grasses. Im worried that these tabs will dissolve to quickly and leach into the water column. I like the way your mind thinks...very scientific. Thanks Sarah Good luck on the midterm

Adam

 

[Samala]

Triterium says
The NPK ratio is 10-10-4. Maybe too high in phosphorus. I'll look for the other one before i plant the grasses. Im worried that these tabs will dissolve to quickly and leach into the water column.

I cant for the life of me remember what the green houseplants NPK is.. that package is floating around here somewhere, definitely lower. I wouldnt stress over the sticks dissolving very quickly.. in my freshwater tank they take up to six months to really break apart.. the binder that they use to keep the fertilizer together lasts a long time. They do get mushy though, and put off lovely white clouds under water. Yuck.

With hundreds of seagrass plants your tank is going to get interesting fast! And 200+ mangroves? I wonder from what sort of facility your LFS is ordering these plants, I'm not really aware of anyone who cultures 'grass.

Think you'll have enough of a bioload to drive that plant colony? I've been doing some testing on my tank and adding KNO3 for a source of N to it.. in three days my small colony of shoal grass consumed all 10mg/L nitrate I was reading.. ~280 mg.

>Sarah

 

[SiniStar]

That velley in the middle looks awesome, can you get some updated shots? Preferably with the plants.

With all that sand I daresay a jawfish would do well in there, and a couple of mandarins.

 

[Triterium]

The LFS is buying the mangroves at this site...
mangroves
But this is not where im getting most of my mangroves. Im buying the "seed pods" unsprouted. They are all going in a large rubbermaid container similar to the sump (except half the height). Im also setting up another 100 gallon rubbermaid to hold the mangroves the LFS buys. Im going to be the holding facility for a ton of mangroves. The LFS is also ording a ton of seagrasses and having me hold some for them as well. There will be a ton of plants in this tank plus quite a few algaes so my demand for nutrients will be high.

Im still a little confused on the best nutrient supplements for a heavily stocked tank. Right now im only adding "plant fuel" from florida-aqua-farms. Here is the description on their website...

"Complete soluble, stable source of supplemental trace metals and vitamins. Principally formulated for commercial aquaculture to enhance growth and color of large (macro) freshwater and saltwater plants and algae. This formula has been used in Florida Aqua Farmââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s plant division for over 17 years. Primary nutrients, nitrate and phosphate, are not present in Plant Fuel . Formulated for use in aquaria and ponds that have established populations of fish and/or invertebrates that are being fed. Metabolism of waste products and excess food normally provide suitable levels of nitrate and phosphate. If you intend to grow only plants we suggest our full strength formula Plant Fuel Too. Both Plant Fuelââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s are enriched with chelated iron, iodide and other essential aquatic trace metals and vitamins including B12, biotin thiamin and others".

So I might just get plant fuel 2. Does that sound like a good product or should I be using something else? I looked for the KNO3 at the fish store but all they had was KH.

Or i could always do a large school of chromis


Thanks Sinistar I dont have many cool plants now but i'll go take some shots....it looks nice and sunny outside, woohoo!

Adam

 

[Triterium]

This picture is the best I can do as of right now.

Here is the refugium. I used it to clean the sand....I didnt try to set it up on the lawn

Here is a new full-tank shot. Actually, the most interesting plants are are the far left of this picture. Ficus benjamina, Strelizia nicolai, Passiflora sp. and Acacia koa Oh, and I have no idea what happened to the sun. I went outside and the whole sky was overcast.

 

[Triterium]

Ive had it with the hair algae! Im going to go buy a sea hare at the LFS. They say they make fast work of algae (including hair_. I really dont have any hard to find species right now so i'll just let it eat everything until the tank is clean. Then i'll remove it when I get the seagrasses and mangroves. I do have some Caulerpas in the tank, but they are covered in hair algae

 

[mightymouse]

well your tnk is getting alot of sunlight that is possibly why you are having the algae issues

 

[CoperBand]

cool tank.... it looks like you are doing some sort of research....

 

[jthnhale]

that's a great idea for an interesting tank. is that deep sand bed for the plant roots?
you might just start a trend in planted tanks, I always loved the freshwater planted tanks, I never thought about trying it with a marine tank. I bet you'll be able to keep lot's of different inverts in there too. good luck with it and keep posting photos!

Jonathan

 

[Samala]

So hows the hair algae coming along? I tried to ask ya in a PM but not sure you got it. I was wondering if you've been testing for phosphates and nitrates as well.

>Sarah

 

[Triterium]

Jonathan, ive been told seagrasses do well in a 6" DSB so im just doing as im told

Sarah, the hair algae growth is receding quickly....finally! I did some testing today. Heres the results

Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 0 (but I should really get a more accurate kit)
Phosphate 0.1 ppm
pH 8.4
Calcium 420-430

I need to buy some more kits including one to test iron.

 

[jthnhale]

your hair algae is going away after only four days? that's not bad.

I'm really liking the planted tank idea. I thought of doing one in an reception area I'm designing. This was a couple of weeks ago. there is space for a long skinny tank I thought the look of just sea grass blowing back and forth would be cool. it's for a biotech company so the look would be appropriate. it was not in the budget though. I'd love to set one up for myself, but space and time are limited.

I'll just enjoy yours for now, keep up the good work. you might have the first planted totm.

 

[Samala]

Jonathan says
you might have the first planted totm.

I'll fight him for it.. Though with the super cool valley (and the size and approach used) I think he'd win. For a biotech company, heck, I'd go with boring freshwater and throw in a bunch of zebra danios in a nice planted biotope. That's what I work with.. they have fun DNA. Course, they use GFP (green fluorescent protein) from jellyfish for all sorts of assays in biotech.. a jellyfish tank would be fun too. Probably a kreisal system so there's no corners.......

Adam - I was reading up and saw you might use that plant fuel 2 stuff.. that might be a better overall approach than the KNO3 sources I was talking about in the other thread. Less work for you most likely.

>Sarah

 

[Triterium]

ya, ive never seen hair algae leave so fast. It was growing everywhere and on everything (even growing on itself). I think one reason its dying is my nitrates finally reached zero and I added a bunch of snails (turbos and astria).

Danios huh? My dad works in the human genetics department at the University of Utah and there is a lot of Danio research there. Im actually going to try to get a job in genetic research this summer (hopefully working with fish ).

The plant fuel 2 looks like a good product. I have had good success with plant fuel 1 but I think i'll need the extra N and P. I was also thinking about adding a huge school of something to increase my bioload (maybe chromis). Hmmm does 30 chromis sound good?

 

[jthnhale]

hmm, jelly tank, now that would be cool. I'd like to see the reaction when I show the bill for a full on kreisal tank :eek2:
I thought the seagrass would be calming and beautiful at the same time.
A jellyfish tank would have the same effect, it defiantly would show the "tech" part of bio tech.

In way the planted tank is great for people who want to have a bunch of fish, and don't want a plain looking tank. Imagine having to worry your nutrients are too low. that makes me sick. Plus you don't have to wait as long as you do for SPS to grow. what a deal.
Do chromis school in seagrass? I would find a fish that lives in seagrass and go with that.
I like trying to get the look of a biotope, the planted tank makes that easier to do.
I'm glad you guys are doing the work of setting up the first real planted tanks I've seen.

 

[Samala]

I think thirty chromis sounds about perfect right now... I'm also going to start with the truly hardy fish in my tank first before moving on to the planned inhabitants.

Jonathan part of the reason my tank is so little is becuase I was hoping, long term, to put dwarf seahorses into it.. they'd be a biotopically-correct addition to the tank. I may forego the horses altogether though, I'm having a lot of fun with it just being shrimp and grass. In a larger seagrass tank pipefish and the larger seahorses would go great in my opinion if you can pay attention to their needs. A lot of fish call seagrass meadows home when they're juveniles.. theres an endless amount of possibility.

Oh and as far as showing the biotech company the bill.. just tell them to work the cost into one of their grants (that is, if they write them..). They could write the tank off as a culturing system to harvest the jelly cells for GFP. Thats not really going to work though.. GFP is relatively cheap.. I'm just being silly.

Honestly genetic/biotech research is so expensive. I work daily with a chemical solvent for extracting RNA and DNA out of cells that costs $1/ml.. that's $1,000 for a 1 liter bottle!

>Sarah